Is a dually needed?

[terryknight]

Not another auto level system. It's probably made by lip pert. Hehe

 

[daugen]

Not another auto level system. It's probably made by lip pert. Hehe

the exact same one...with a fancier wood surround...groan

I saw some of these Excel fifth wheels in the campgrounds but most were pretty conservative, no bison heads or antelope horns on the outside...
Since the one I'm looking at has been around a while and is the most popular thing they make, I sure am hoping they have the bugs out by now.
And it was suggested to me that the trailer suspension with whatever MorRyde axles or some brand name would be less bumpy on the "house part" than what I drive now. As Elvis would say, I'm all shook up...
I did notice that for 2015 this company is introducing a low voltage lighting system throughout. More complexity.
??

 

[Fordman1981]

But in the latest towing war tests it's been noted as the least stable and poorest overall performer. Get a truck to do the job intended. If you want a good ride spend $5000 on a used Buick or Lincoln. Chris

And where did you read that about a ram 3500?

 

[aczlan]

I did notice that for 2015 this company is introducing a low voltage lighting system throughout. More complexity.
??

Or less complex. If it uses LEDs, no need now for separate 120VAC lighting system (less bulbs and wire to run) and when not using shore power batteries should last longer.

Aaron Z

 

[Diamondpilot]

And where did you read that about a ram 3500?

Not the 3500, the 2500 posted here.

Chris

 

[nc redneck]

I have and towed a 5th Wheel 2k LBs heavier than you are looking at for many miles. Best bet get a Chevy/Duramax. Or cruise major campgrounds and RV.net may help. Used to see some Fords back in 06 and later before they went through 2 or 3 motors redesigns. The early Power Strokes were built proof, I owned one. Dodges are almost nonexistent among serious 5th wheelers. ( except for transporters who trade every 50 K )You will be tagged as new guy with with much to learn when you pull in with rattling Dodge.
Check out RV.net Before you make 70 K mistake.
Scott

 

[Fordman1981]

Not the 3500, the 2500 posted here. Chris

And the op is talking about 1 ton drw trucks so how does that pertain to the topic at all. The 2500 doesn't have the air bag rear suspension that was mentioned when you replied with your comment about the ram not handle the load in the test. You are such a short sited ford lover that it has made me loose all respect for your opinions.

 

[Fordman1981]

I have and towed a 5th Wheel 2k LBs heavier than you are looking at for many miles. Best bet get a Chevy/Duramax. Or cruise major campgrounds and RV.net may help. Used to see some Fords back in 06 and later before they went through 2 or 3 motors redesigns. The early Power Strokes were built proof, I owned one. Dodges are almost nonexistent among serious 5th wheelers. ( except for transporters who trade every 50 K )You will be tagged as new guy with with much to learn when you pull in with rattling Dodge. Check out RV.net Before you make 70 K mistake. Scott

Hahahahaha you sir are funny. I guess all the other manufactures should shut their doors. GM makes the only truck that last. nc redneck has spoken. I have 4 rams in service with 0 issues. I have several fords as well a few issues. I've seen as many issues with the GMs as I have any other make.

 

[Fordman1981]

Daugen my advice to you is drive all 3. Buy the one that you like best. They all make really good trucks right now. I've never been a GM man just my preference but don't begrudge any man for choosing them. What upsets me if you can't already tell is when people push their blind loyalist onto other people and think they are wrong because they didn't choose their brand. Like diamond pilot does all the time any time he can take a shot at Ram or GM he does. Someone told you the Ram with the air suspension on the drw 3500 would probably ride the best empty and he has to say there was a test between 3/4 tons that had one writer say it didn't handle as well as the ford or GM. Here are a few things to consider about that test. 1. The writer is still just one mans opinion just like anyone else's. 2. It was 3/4 ton trucks which does not have the air ride suspension. 3. Again 3/4 ton trucks nothing like what you will be looking to buy. Sorry didn't mean to go into a rant again. Buy the one you like best and don't look back. Any of the 3 you will be more than happy with.

 

[daugen]

as I said, been talking about the big three for a long time, and yeah, it's normal to be opinionated here, and any time we talk trucks, well...

I'm sorry NC Redneck, I saw plenty of Rams out there and one could tell they were newer because of the flared rear fenders. I looked at trucks as much as trailers in the campground, and I saw them all. Nicest looking one was a new dually F350 in that new blue jeans blue. About time someone came up with a new color. White and black, white and black, it's almost all one sees when looking in the dealer lots. One local dealer has more than two dozen diesel trucks in stock and only one dually. White of course... I really don't care about color, figure I'll be ordering the truck anyway.

this is utterly irrelevant for towing, but a quirky requirement of mine, being a no bling person, is that I would really, really like to have a painted grill, and not the chrome Peterbilt wannabe look that seems so prevalent. I'd be very happy with a midline painted grill cloth seat truck, as long as it has most of the options. I do not need Corinthian leather woven into King Ranch door pulls... I'm going to see the head of truck sales at the local Ford dealer next week, and will start the seat testing.

From what I've seen, a 3.73 or similar rear end is about the right compromise. I love the new 30k ratings by Ram; so bothered Ford they steroided the F450 and now the 2015 model can pull 30K also. Didn't that use to take a dump truck?

btw, I liked this Ram, clean and simple, more like a proper tool than a social status elevator. I always did like the silver Platinum model Ford F150's, the chrome sort of blended into the silver and downplayed it. We sure do like our chrome. And of course, being a motorhead, I have a variety of polishes to make sure that chrome gleams. A little dab of Simichrome?
Just not too much of it. Nor do I need a twelve inch circumference exhaust pipe.

 

[Diamondpilot]

And the op is talking about 1 ton drw trucks so how does that pertain to the topic at all. The 2500 doesn't have the air bag rear suspension that was mentioned when you replied with your comment about the ram not handle the load in the test. You are such a short sited ford lover that it has made me loose all respect for your opinions.

No. It does pertain. And if the OP wants the best riding truck it's the GM. It's also the least capable. So there is no free lunch. A 1 ton dually is what it is, a work horse.

Me personally, I would get the heaviest option 1 ton SRW F350. Problem is he wants a dually to do multiple things so he's going to have to live with it doing some things poorly. Just the way it works.

Chris

 

[Diamondpilot]

I have and towed a 5th Wheel 2k LBs heavier than you are looking at for many miles. Best bet get a Chevy/Duramax. Or cruise major campgrounds and RV.net may help. Used to see some Fords back in 06 and later before they went through 2 or 3 motors redesigns. The early Power Strokes were built proof, I owned one. Dodges are almost nonexistent among serious 5th wheelers. ( except for transporters who trade every 50 K )You will be tagged as new guy with with much to learn when you pull in with rattling Dodge.
Check out RV.net Before you make 70 K mistake.
Scott

Reason RV types have GM trucks around here is because the vast majority are retired. They like that the GM truck sirs lower and rides the best with its torsion bar front end.

Around here the serious guys who work a truck, builders, farmer's, plowers, ect use Ford's 80% of the time and Dodge fills in the rest. GM is non existing in this segment.

Chris

 

[LA Confederate]

The Ram has a 30k GVWR last I checked. And the '15 F450 is pretty close or better. Both will do the job because when towing, torque is king. GM needs to step it up in the power department but can't because they're emissions limited but I read an article that they are working on that for next year.

 

[Buppies]

Simichrome seem I have a tube down stairs and wasn't to long ago it was in use. German product I think and works very well. Have not owned a GM product since 1989 in trucks either Ford or Dodge for me. Really like the cummins motor and the two Dodges that we have owned have performed flawlessly but both 3/4 ton models. F450 not so much lots of trouble with 6.4 and it hauls 12000lbs everyday

 

[daugen]

some general thoughts

now I hear one say the GM is better riding, but does that hold true for the 3500 vs the 2500? I need the 3500 version to pull 9 tons, and I sure want it rated for at least ten or eleven. Which the diesel duallies do well with, around 24K towing maxed out.
Point is, I want to be comfortable in my 98% other time use of this truck, and I know that's a tough, if not impossible thing to achieve in a 3500 model.
I would think airbags in the suspension might help a little, but otherwise it's the normal NVH thing. Who builds a quieter truck? Turning radius? Neat options like Rambox?

Some of these trucks have factory fifth wheel mounts or underbed supports built in. My inclination is that's a good thing, and I would sure want to be able to remove the apparatus fully from the truck when finished trailering. And I bet those suckers are pretty heavy up in the 22-24K class. Good thing I have a floor winch. And will have an overhead lift in my new shop.

After my late wife's new XTS Cadillac drove us crazy with the CUE system. I pretty much swore off GM. But they seem to have a better simpler system in the trucks with a real volume knob. That's another issue, do I need two button pushes and a mouse rotation to get a radio station? I used to own a retail electronics business, so you can imagine how much practice I had in explaining how things work to people. Some who barely knew not to stick their finger in the electrical socket.
You have to start at basics. The on switch. Very important...etc.etc. So I have a strong enduring desire for machinery to run with intuitive controls that are easy to see without a magnifier or a flashlight. No drill down programs, KISS. Look at stereo receivers. Very few don't require you to squint at the controls to figure them out.
So the infotainment system, aka radio, can either be fun, with a good speaker system, or can drive one crazy. From what I've seen with trucks, they try to make the controls larger, but the touchscreen operations that require me to take my eyes off the road are just stupid engineering and will get me or someone killed if I don't pay attention to my driving. GM has always used Bose in their nicer trucks and I've been satisfied with that, although the clear high notes are usually missing.
Of course one can always go to Crutchfield...

And lastly the one thing no one can research. The seat. Have to sit in it. Wiggle around. Make sure it's heated. Cooling ok, not a biggie for me. Adjust the power pedals.
And then drive the thing and look for potholes, weavy pavement ,etc, and then go do 60 on route 95, which is nearby, and see how it cruises. Or go up 611 from Doylestown PA, the only other route we can get over 55 locally. Suburbia. 35 and 45 everywhere, except for a few stretches where folks are so used to going slow they don't go much faster... With the state of our roads around here, still terrible and falling apart from the beating this past winter, I should have at least some good test roads to drive on. The biggest dealer nearby, Reedman Toll in Langhorne PA has this silly little track they let you drive on, but not off the property. Stupid, won't buy from them. The little test drive has a bump section and a sharp turn, like their own little proving ground. Worthless since you can't get over 25 on it. I want to hear if the wind whistles, if there are any. Want to hear how loud the tires whine. Can't do that on a forum or reading an article.

As I mentioned before I'm sure GM played a game with the others and let the others play their cards so they could trump them with a reboosted Duramax.
Last one in could win the game. We have an 850 and an 860, wonder if GM can hit 900?
Which is all fun to think about, but I want comfort. And I really bet current power levels are adequate for my needs. Sixty grand for a truck is a serious investment and not one I'm going to rush. This should be a keeper farm truck too, though I will always use my car for things it can do using a third of the fuel the truck does.

 

[newbury]

Drew -
Don't make your decision at all based on "sales figures". Ford may sell more because of deep discounts for fleets.

Also keep an eye open for a good used truck. Some people's needs change. That diesel dually to pull the camper is not needed after you sell the camper and have to go to the mall.

$30K for a good condition used dually inspected by a good mechanic will give $40K for repairs down the line.

Here's an example 2003 Ford F350 Crew Dually Diesel Truck from Handpicked Western Trucks LLC

About 200K miles, went for $25K.

/edit - fuel economy - I just figured out the MPG's my F350 dually got on my trip down from Alexandria, Va to Fulton, Mississippi. Hauling a full bed load (chipper and attachments) plus my Hudson trailer w/ M4700 tractor, FEL, loaded tires (about 9K+ pounds) - 11.5mpg plus.

 

[JHLambert28619]

"Will I get pushed around more on curves with a single vs dual rear wheel? The trailer weighs well over twice the truck, so that's a concern to me."

Okay, some simple engineering is in need with some practical experience. The dually pickup truck simply has a wider footprint of rubber meeting the road. On my first dually way back in 1975, I ran 10.50 x 16.5's tires. That a total footprint of around 21.5 inches including the gap between the rear wheels vs a single 10.5 tire. Being pushed around on curves should be of concern, but being blown around on the "super-slab" became a key and primary concern of mine back in 1975. Before the '1975 dually, I used a one ton Chevy Crew Cab which worked great. A good friend of mine used his dually more successfully that did I and I was jealous of his ease of maneuverability with his 40' tri-axle Bravo than I was with my 35' Bravo. So I upgraded. Here's what you're in for in a dual axle versus a single.

1. The wider foot print does allow for more friction against the road so realizing stability is immediate. Loaded or dry.
2. Loaded, you'll notice a more responsive vehicle results in turning more quickly but during backing, putting a long 5th wheel camper in it's place was a lot easier.
3. Loaded or dry, the dually gets worse fuel economy. Mine was a gas model as diesels hadn't hit the road yet. Heck back in the 70's the word economy was actually thrown out of the definition of fuel consumption.
4. Learn to live with the the use of more fuel so more fuel tanks were a necessity for me. I could drive loaded or dry from Valdese, NC to Fort Smith, AK easily on a fill up. On my first Chevy Crew Cab Dually that was 205 gallons and back then non-commercial filling stations gave S&H Green Stamps. From empty that was nearly $80 in fuel at .379 per gallon. Gas wars were common back in the day so I have pumped fuel (gasoline) for as little as .139 a gallon in that first dually. Those days are gone forever.
5. Back then the 5th wheel camper outweighed my dually by about 238%and I yanked that SOB all over Yellowstone, Custer Nat'l Park; from Valdese, NC to Spokane, WA; to Death Valley then up to the Great Salt Lake, down to Texas to see the other end of the fam then take the southern route home through Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina then home. I was in the camper business - and so every mile that truck was driven was a legal write off as I did promotional sales while on vacation. Weight was never an issue.

I always kept my trucks serviced, and as soon as they began to cost more to drive than write off I got rid of them via selling them and purchased a new one. I like the 460 geared rear end as I could zip in and through traffic without much throttle, gas or diesel. Remember this; a proper tongue weight is the product of excellent engineering in any towed vehicle. Having sliding axles was a real upgrade to my last 42' 5th wheel camper. Without them, if you load a camper other than how the OEM tells you, they're no longer responsible as an OEM. It was simple to slide them too. Hooked up just unlock them and slide them either forwards (to lessen tongue weight) or backwards (to increase it when towing it dry) with your truck.

John

 

[dave1949]

PGNC Gooseneck Bodies Product Gallery | Knapheide

If you get a cab chassis and then put on an after market bed like above, you will have a nicer than factory truck and you won't need to remove the 5th wheel to use the flat bed. It is in a recessed pocket that can be covered when not in use. Integrated tool boxes too. IMHO a standard pickup bed is for looks, not function.

 

[Soundguy]

"Will I get pushed around more on curves with a single vs dual rear wheel? The trailer weighs well over twice the truck, so that's a concern to me."

.

John

i notice no difference cornering in my 250, 350, or 450.. except that i allow a lil more room in the 350/450 so i don't curb check..

 

[daugen]

PGNC Gooseneck Bodies Product Gallery | Knapheide

If you get a cab chassis and then put on an after market bed like above, you will have a nicer than factory truck and you won't need to remove the 5th wheel to use the flat bed. It is in a recessed pocket that can be covered when not in use. Integrated tool boxes too. IMHO a standard pickup bed is for looks, not function.

didn't know if you could get Ramboxes in a dually configuration but thought that would be a real positive, as you say.
I'll ask about the aftermarket option when I go see the Ford guy later this week. Just got done taking the rv back to the dealer. Now I can change my focus.
and clean up at least a ton of crap taken out of the rv which all now has to be put away, ready for the next adventure. No truck shopping until then...

now here's a strange question...some of these trucks have bed steps built in. Any better than others? I'm not that agile any more and need something real to climb on.
Always wondered about all those pickup toolboxes in years past and how folks actually climbed up there. GM I think has notches in their bumper, Ford has something that swings out/down, not sure what Ram has. Are any of them useful if the trailer is attached and obviously in the way from the rear?