Is a dually needed?

[Soundguy]

I have welded up a step plate on a rcvr tounge that helps me get to my bed. it is flat plate on the 2: tubing, pins in, and has expanded metal welded to it for grip. I'm working on a setup that uses a ubolt to clamp on to an existing tounge so I can hav ehte step and Ball at the same time.

 

[daugen]

i notice no difference cornering in my 250, 350, or 450.. except that i allow a lil more room in the 350/450 so i don't curb check..

that's significant because at least one of them is a dually, maybe two right? no diff in srw vs drw? You are in a warm area that's flat. Wonder if that is a true test, though I know your experience is huge. Boy I've driven some seriously winding mountain roads in the rain and fog and I sure did not want to worry about hydroplaning or skidding with the motorhome. Never had the slightest problem, obviously drw. Goodyear Unisteel G670 RV 245/70/19.5, four channels, five ribs, not much siping, but got the job done.

in my experience, high quality tires can make a big difference in performance, have to be sure one doesn't have tires issues vs. truck issues. I usually stick with Michelin for the truck but interestingly the fifth wheel I'm interested in offers a 17.5 HD trailer tire option, the 15 to 18 ply jobs. Probably worth the money. Don't find those at Tire Rack. Apparently used for lowboy trailers and other heavy hauling.

 

[daugen]

just thought I'd throw in the "expert" opinion at the rv place. Go with dodge or ford, but not an older ford, because we know many/most of them were bad(huh? bit of an overstatement...) and while GM makes the best motor and transmission, the rest of the truck is too light.

ok, I suppose I could interchange the big three in similar sentences and someone would like one combo, one another....folks have one bad experience, or hear one bad story, and all of a sudden the baby and the bassinet go out with the bathwater.

 

[Soundguy]

the 350 and 450 are drw. 16" tires on the 150, and 19.5's onthe 450, 16: tires on the srw 250.

Yep.. mostly always warm.. and mostly flat. we do have SOME topography.. but not straight up and down like some states.

We do get wet, vry very wet and windy.

here are my experiences on those vehicles int he following conditions I have used them in:

Rain / water.. without a doubt.. more ruber onthe ground makes me feel better. I have hydroplaned slightly in srw vehicles and , at least for me, experience it less with drw vehicles.

Plain out heavy load / long / big trailer.. Again.. I'll take DRW any day. feels safer, feels like more control. Stopping... I can stop both my drw trucks faster than my srw at speed with load. the 450 actually does the best ironically

traction: I can usually go in 2wd on the drw vehicles where i have to use 4wd in a srw. in fact.. my 450 is ONLY 2wd.. the 350 and 250 are 4wd. In soft sand more rubber floats better.. less fishtailing.

snow / ice: Not much exp there. i have driven in N. georgia / tennessee and texas during snow and on black ice a FEW rare times.. and honestly.. I tried to drive so ultra safe it was hard to tell much of a difference except on initial acceleration and fast braking. again. more rubber helped not break traction.. again.. i have only a few trips experience driving on icy roads. most of mine ae either hot and dry.. or warm and wet and windy.


turning radius. : got me... the bigger vehicles take more space.

Parking: Got me... slightly more choosey on parking the drw models.. mostly because i don't want smashed fender wells due to other peoples's bad parking habits.

Tires... cheap tires seem to wear out faster and have more road noise.. though past that.. havn't noticed too many other negatives.. not that those aren't enough. Multi purpose tires like traction grip off roads make plenty of noise and 'feel' different n the road.. more positive or tight.. and maybee even rougher ride at low speeds.

that's significant because at least one of them is a dually, maybe two right? no diff in srw vs drw? You are in a warm area that's flat. Wonder if that is a true test, though I know your experience is huge. Boy I've driven some seriously winding mountain roads in the rain and fog and I sure did not want to worry about hydroplaning or skidding with the motorhome. Never had the slightest problem, obviously drw. Goodyear Unisteel G670 RV 245/70/19.5, four channels, five ribs, not much siping, but got the job done.

in my experience, high quality tires can make a big difference in performance, have to be sure one doesn't have tires issues vs. truck issues. I usually stick with Michelin for the truck but interestingly the fifth wheel I'm interested in offers a 17.5 HD trailer tire option, the 15 to 18 ply jobs. Probably worth the money. Don't find those at Tire Rack. Apparently used for lowboy trailers and other heavy hauling.

 

[Soundguy]

. Go with dodge or ford, but not an older ford, because we know many/most of them were bad(huh? bit of an overstatement...) .

you may want to define that some? i'd take a ford diesel 97-2003 over anything offered from ford 2004+

no def on a 7.3, .. etc. not a power monger like some of the new machines.. but it was pretty bulletproof. Carry a spare CPS and a 10mm wrench inthe tool boax and keep driving.

 

[Diamondpilot]

didn't know if you could get Ramboxes in a dually configuration but thought that would be a real positive, as you say.
I'll ask about the aftermarket option when I go see the Ford guy later this week. Just got done taking the rv back to the dealer. Now I can change my focus.
and clean up at least a ton of crap taken out of the rv which all now has to be put away, ready for the next adventure. No truck shopping until then...

now here's a strange question...some of these trucks have bed steps built in. Any better than others? I'm not that agile any more and need something real to climb on.
Always wondered about all those pickup toolboxes in years past and how folks actually climbed up there. GM I think has notches in their bumper, Ford has something that swings out/down, not sure what Ram has. Are any of them useful if the trailer is attached and obviously in the way from the rear?

I would watch the ram boxes with.a 5th wheel. It will be ver easy to do damage to the bed sides when making tight turns due to the reduced bed width. Not a issue with a GN due to the hitch apparatus being vertical vs angled on a 5th wheel.

Chris

 

[newbury]

didn't know if you could get Ramboxes in a dually configuration but thought that would be a real positive, as you say.
I'll ask about the aftermarket option when I go see the Ford guy later this week. Just got done taking the rv back to the dealer. Now I can change my focus.
and clean up at least a ton of crap taken out of the rv which all now has to be put away, ready for the next adventure. No truck shopping until then...

now here's a strange question...some of these trucks have bed steps built in. Any better than others? I'm not that agile any more and need something real to climb on.
Always wondered about all those pickup toolboxes in years past and how folks actually climbed up there. GM I think has notches in their bumper, Ford has something that swings out/down, not sure what Ram has. Are any of them useful if the trailer is attached and obviously in the way from the rear?

I too have aged, my solution is a $40 little aluminum step ladder. Folds up, stores easily, useful for other things.

 

[chvfrk98]

I could have got away with a SRW and loved the one I had, but with a full profile fifth wheel, I have caught a couple side winds that pushed the whole trailer and truck over a lane. Like pulling the rear of the truck over. I had to steer with to keep straight. A little scary as I was running out of road on the left. That was the moment I decided stability was paramount. I can afford the fuel for the piece of mind. I do not drive the truck daily but I did for the first 6 months and it was tolerable.

 

[LA Confederate]

you may want to define that some? i'd take a ford diesel 97-2003 over anything offered from ford 2004+

no def on a 7.3, .. etc. not a power monger like some of the new machines.. but it was pretty bulletproof. Carry a spare CPS and a 10mm wrench inthe tool boax and keep driving.

This is so true. I'll take the Pepsi challenge with my 11 year old 7.3 F250 with 210k miles over a General Mechanical Catastrophe any ol day. The ONLY issues with Ford have been well addressed in the aftermarket, just like the issues with the Dodge and GM. In the case of the Ford, the 7.3 CPS issue, death wobble, and unit bearings; the 6.0 is a great motor once you invest in deleting the emissions garbage off of it and bulletproof it. The 6.4, same thing; delete the emissions crap and it's a heck of a motor. GM has it's share of problems from injectors and filtration issues in the LB7, overheating issues when hauling with the '03-'05 motors, scorching pistons in the '06-'07 trucks, unit bearings, weak tie rod ends, emissions problems, etc. Dodge, steering suspension issues, weakish automatic transmissions, fuel supply to the VP44, KDP, death wobble, fuel rail issues in the common rails, and like the rest emissions issues.

I've been around diesels for about 15 years now, from repairing them, tuning them, racing them (amateur), etc. I had, in this order, a '01 Silverado 2500HD Duramax/Allison 4x4, '00 Ram 3500 quad cab 4x4 5-speed Cummins, '01 F250 supercab 2wd 7.3 6-speed, '93 Ram D350 club cab 2wd 5-speed 12v Cummins, and my current '03 F250 crew cab FX4 7.3 Auto. All of them have been modified and I drive hard and tow heavy. They ALL have their pluses and minuses. But if you're buying based solely on a comfortable ride, you're searching for the wrong thing. If you're looking for a good ride buy a dad gum car, not a 1 ton truck. If you're looking for something to tow with, find out which truck tows best for your driving style because they all tow differently.

 

[terryknight]

Take a look at the higher capacity trucks f450s dodge 4500. Bigger brakes, bigger rears, bigger rims/tires, beefier springs frame, and in the dodge case the aisin trans in the dodge (you can get it in the 3500 as well I believe)

 

[nc redneck]

Regardless of what brand you buy make sure you put in a oversized A/M fuel tank. Or in bed aux fuel tank. I do both on my trucks. It takes a lot of stress out of towing 500 or so plus miles and wondering if my 40 foot 5th wheel can make the needed turns when traveling to get to diesel pump.
None of the 3500 have enough fuel storage for a serious 5th wheeler. I like 85 to 100 gallons with 2 A/M tanks. I can leave NC pull to Orlando FL, drive around for a few days check who has best price on fuel. And fill up when convenient. SC run requires no fuel stops there and back.
The reason why Dodge has a 30K tow rating is because they could not give them aweigh with true tow loads. Anyone who puts 30K on one of these trucks GM, Ford or Dodge is a idiot and a danger to themselves and others on the road.
You may also want to check out Diesel Power magazine. GM and Ford have been the winners for last 15 years. GM with the most. Never a serious contender from Dodge. I do understand the draw of low price for Dodge, you get what you pay for.
Good Luck with your decision. I hope you enjoy the new RV.
Scott

 

[chvfrk98]

This is so true. I'll take the Pepsi challenge with my 11 year old 7.3 F250 with 210k miles over a General Mechanical Catastrophe any ol day. The ONLY issues with Ford have been well addressed in the aftermarket, just like the issues with the Dodge and GM. In the case of the Ford, the 7.3 CPS issue, death wobble, and unit bearings; the 6.0 is a great motor once you invest in deleting the emissions garbage off of it and bulletproof it. The 6.4, same thing; delete the emissions crap and it's a heck of a motor. GM has it's share of problems from injectors and filtration issues in the LB7, overheating issues when hauling with the '03-'05 motors, scorching pistons in the '06-'07 trucks, unit bearings, weak tie rod ends, emissions problems, etc. Dodge, steering suspension issues, weakish automatic transmissions, fuel supply to the VP44, KDP, death wobble, fuel rail issues in the common rails, and like the rest emissions issues.

I've been around diesels for about 15 years now, from repairing them, tuning them, racing them (amateur), etc. I had, in this order, a '01 Silverado 2500HD Duramax/Allison 4x4, '00 Ram 3500 quad cab 4x4 5-speed Cummins, '01 F250 supercab 2wd 7.3 6-speed, '93 Ram D350 club cab 2wd 5-speed 12v Cummins, and my current '03 F250 crew cab FX4 7.3 Auto. All of them have been modified and I drive hard and tow heavy. They ALL have their pluses and minuses. But if you're buying based solely on a comfortable ride, you're searching for the wrong thing. If you're looking for a good ride buy a dad gum car, not a 1 ton truck. If you're looking for something to tow with, find out which truck tows best for your driving style because they all tow differently.

Tell that to my buddy that just had to put a new engine in his 2006 for a stuck lifter. They are seeing alot more of these happening. Only 115K. That's just not right.

Now I have a 12 F350 but I really do miss my duramax when it comes to general ride quality and the transmission. Power is equal but the allison puts it down so much better.

 

[daugen]

you may want to define that some? i'd take a ford diesel 97-2003 over anything offered from ford 2004+

no def on a 7.3, .. etc. not a power monger like some of the new machines.. but it was pretty bulletproof. Carry a spare CPS and a 10mm wrench inthe tool boax and keep driving.

WHOA! I should have put that in sarcastic quotes. I'm only quoting what yet another opinionated person had to say, not saying I believe it, saying most old Ford diesels are bad is ludicrous, so I was kind of poking fun at the statement. Sorry, next time I'll be more obvious.

I've always heard the Duramax had more pull/grunt to it, and some of those comparison tests a year or two back did show it out ahead a little hauling a load. But if the Ford, for example, is a better tow vehicle, has a better integrated anti sway control, whatever that makes the towing easier and more comfortable, I really don't care who accelerates faster. Certainly not in a rush pulling one of these, just want to be able to pull into traffic and gain speed reasonably, and keep reasonable speed on hills.

Yes, it's a heavy fifth wheel, and I had not intended to go this high in weight. And since I found out today there are no models to look at, they are all custom special order, and if I wanted to I could go to North West Kansas, in the utter middle of nowhere, four hours from a major airport and visit the factory.
boy the shine went off that apple. So I'm also looking at a CrossRoads Redwood, which is two tons lighter than the Excel for the same floor plan.
I asked the Redwood salesman where all the weight went out of "his" unit. Actually, the Excel is the porker, not the Redwood being light, it's in the same ton range as the Winnebago Destination. And there is actually one sitting on a lot in West Chester, West of Philadelphia. That sounds like an easier road trip than Kansas.
though I haven't talked to Dorothy in a while.

I can't believe the dealership went to all the bother of telling me oh this is the one you want. No we don't have any. No we don't order for stock. No there aren't any locally you can look at. Oh, we found one in Michigan. But we really think you'll like it.
I bet I would ,and it's not even going to be at the Hershey RV Show coming up. They are bringing a less expensive model; apparently word on the street sells the more costly ones and they are pumping them out as fast as they can. Quality sells.
Maybe keeping my weight down and my cost down a bit might make fine sense long term. Sure does in other things...

 

[nc redneck]

I would make the factory trip in a minute. RVs are not like trucks where build quality is very close. All RVs are built cheap until you get in Newmar , Prevost price range 250K plus. A light 5th wheel is a cheap one, the Florida Super Show is a lot better than Hershey.
You may want to look at KZ recently ( last month ) sold to Dutchman for 52 million. I bet you can still get a well built 5th wheel from them now. In 6 months or so it will be just another Dutchman clone.
Look for a semi custom builder. And don't get sucked in by low price ( like with Dodge and 30K tow rating )
Take your time. its a lot of money for new truck and 5th wheel. IMO
Scott

 

[terryknight]

You may also want to check out Diesel Power magazine. GM and Ford have been the winners for last 15 years. GM with the most. Never a serious contender from Dodge. I do understand the draw of low price for Dodge, you get what you pay for.
Good Luck with your decision. I hope you enjoy the new RV.
Scott

If you are talking about the diesel power challenge (which is how I read it) it's only been going on 9 years. Each of the big three have won 3 times, though one of the fords had a cummins/Allison combo.

And DPC really has nothing to do with anything. The trucks are no your average truck

 

[LA Confederate]

Bingo. DPC has zero reflection on real world towing and usefulness unless you count 1500 hp with piston melting EGTs, lift kits, and big tires useful.

The Ford is a good all around hauler and daily driver, the Cummins is generally rock solid and will always win in off the line torque application, and the Maxi Pad is somewhere in between.

Like I said earlier, they all pull differently because their power curves are all different, have different transmission tuning, different exhaust brake profiles, etc.

 

[Fordman1981]

Regardless of what brand you buy make sure you put in a oversized A/M fuel tank. Or in bed aux fuel tank. I do both on my trucks. It takes a lot of stress out of towing 500 or so plus miles and wondering if my 40 foot 5th wheel can make the needed turns when traveling to get to diesel pump. None of the 3500 have enough fuel storage for a serious 5th wheeler. I like 85 to 100 gallons with 2 A/M tanks. I can leave NC pull to Orlando FL, drive around for a few days check who has best price on fuel. And fill up when convenient. SC run requires no fuel stops there and back. The reason why Dodge has a 30K tow rating is because they could not give them aweigh with true tow loads. Anyone who puts 30K on one of these trucks GM, Ford or Dodge is a idiot and a danger to themselves and others on the road. You may also want to check out Diesel Power magazine. GM and Ford have been the winners for last 15 years. GM with the most. Never a serious contender from Dodge. I do understand the draw of low price for Dodge, you get what you pay for. Good Luck with your decision. I hope you enjoy the new RV. Scott

Hahahaha again. You sir need to quit talking with your brand loyal bull crap.

Daugen again don't listen to garbage like this go drive them all equip them the way you want and the one you like best buy. You will get good service out of any of them. Ram is out selling chevy now and someone has a sore butt.

 

[Soundguy]

Regardless of what brand you buy make sure you put in a oversized A/M fuel tank. Or in bed aux fuel tank. I do both on my trucks. It takes a lot of stress out of towing 500 or so plus miles and wondering if my 40 foot 5th wheel can make the needed turns when traveling to get to diesel pump.

I agree. I have a 50g xfer tank in the bed of my 450... it's quite nice getting to destination without stopping for fuel.

 

[newbury]

I agree. I have a 50g xfer tank in the bed of my 450... it's quite nice getting to destination without stopping for fuel.

I was always concerned about running out of diesel. Since '78 with my first VW diesel I've learned to plan my stops in unknown territory. My '88 E350 7.3 required more fuel but I always made a rule that when it get's to a 1/4 tank fill it up.

But back in '78 there were a LOT fewer diesel stations, in '88 a few more, and now they seem to be prevalent. The bigger problem for me is ease of access for my 45' of truck and trailer. But there are a LOT of truck stops. I'm not sure if it's worth giving up the bedspace for a xfer tank.

I'd say if ordering new get the max you can installed without taking up bed space for a moderate price. I think standard is around 40 gallons, which should give you AT least a 400 mile range towing. But to me permanently sucking up bed space is a lose-lose situation unless your fueling other vehicles. And optional under bed tanks seem to start at about $1,000, or about what 250 gallons of fuel costs. 2 jerry cans from Sportsmans only cost me about $50 and carry 10 gallons The Sportsman's Guide - Hunting & Outdoor Gear, Shooting Supplies, Military Surplus, Survival Gear and More! and they are a lot more useful.

 

[Soundguy]

But back in '78 there were a LOT fewer diesel stations, in '88 a few more, and now they seem to be prevalent. The bigger problem for me is ease of access for my 45' of truck and trailer. But there are a LOT of truck stops. I'm not sure if it's worth giving up the bedspace for a xfer tank.

yep.. alot more stations that offer diesel now.. however.. i've noticed on the large stations where you actually can get in with 50' of truck and trailer.. the diesel pumps are usually on the 2 outter lanes.. and doubled with gas pumps. Probably 99% of the time i pull in to get diesel.. there will be 2 cars getting gas.. and both on the outside gas/diesel lanes.. leaving me stuck while they fill their gasser tank, yak on the phone. text, then leave their car there while they walk in to get lotto tickets, a big gulk and a ho-ho, before they come back out.. take 5 minutes getting in seat belted.. make one more phone call, put on eye makeup, seatbelt, , yada, yada, then look back at you, and put on their reverse lights and shoot you a bird when you can't let them back out of the diesel lane they have been blocking for the last half hour to buy 9g of gas ...

that's why i travel with lots of diesel.. and try to fill up late at night or at dedicated truck stops..

not sure why people go to 10 and 20 pump stations, and ONLY use the 2-4 pumps that serve diesel, and stop there to get gas.. instead of being more polite and using a gas only pump???????