Is a dually needed?

[newbury]

Again I think someone is butt hurt that chevy has the lowest tow rating. Ram completely redesigned their truck to obtain their 30,000 lb tow rating. Ford upped their rating for 2015 by minor changes. So yeah listen to NC dipstick and buy the most outdated least capable truck.

And that could backfire on RAM.
The FEDERAL CDL limit is 26K, we all know it and that it doesn't apply to RV's.

But what is it going to do to the "buying" of used trucks? States are "cracking" down where it's easy to crack down, they are requiring CDL's for trailers over 10K AND HIGHER TAXES. My BIL couldn't get his old GM dually registered at a low weight rating because the mfg rated it higher. So if your DMV/ state taxes on weight capacity it may bump up your taxes.

Everyone knows that the ONLY people that have trucks that can pull 30K are running businesses, are farmers, or are rich people like Drew pulling RV's. And all those people can pay higher taxes.

So Drew, be careful on that little point, if everything else is the same between trucks, down to looks and butt feel, go with one that is lower in capacity but still fits your needs.

 

[Diamondpilot]

And that could backfire on RAM.
The FEDERAL CDL limit is 26K, we all know it and that it doesn't apply to RV's.

But what is it going to do to the "buying" of used trucks? States are "cracking" down where it's easy to crack down, they are requiring CDL's for trailers over 10K AND HIGHER TAXES. My BIL couldn't get his old GM dually registered at a low weight rating because the mfg rated it higher. So if your DMV/ state taxes on weight capacity it may bump up your taxes.

Everyone knows that the ONLY people that have trucks that can pull 30K are running businesses, are farmers, or are rich people like Drew pulling RV's. And all those people can pay higher taxes.

So Drew, be careful on that little point, if everything else is the same between trucks, down to looks and butt feel, go with one that is lower in capacity but still fits your needs.

The RV and Farm exemption can take advantage of these new tow ratings along with properly licensed drivers.

I don't see how it can backfire. My last car could do 160 mph but I never drove it that fast.

Chris

 

[daugen]

ok, now this is helpful, vs. brand bashing, though not half as much fun... I don't have a CDL...knew I didn't need one with this motorhome, but if I rent a ten ton trailer from Sunbelt Rentals, and pull it with an F350, do I need to go through licensing? I need an education on "regular" work trailers vs. fifth wheels.
thanks

I have been seriously thinking and rethinking this fifth wheel issue, and yes, based on weight and size. Maybe I should just limit myself with a 16K gvw trailer, though I'm not sure what difference 8 tons vs 9 tons makes. I had originally thought I could do all this with a diesel F250. Wrong...
And certainly what I have learned here is being able to do it, legally, and wanting to do it, are two different things. I like the idea of a pulling a 9 ton trailer with a 12 ton capability. But would pulling an 8 ton fifth wheel with a 9 ton rating (17,850 or so) be similar, more comfortable(?). My guess is until I go to srw from drw the ride issue is not going to change much, even with air bags in the rear.

Have a 1pm appt today with the truck mgr at the local large Ford dealership. Will be interested to see what he recommends. Something on the lot I'm sure...

 

[Fordman1981]

The RV and Farm exemption can take advantage of these new tow ratings along with properly licensed drivers. I don't see how it can backfire. My last car could do 160 mph but I never drove it that fast. Chris

On top of that not all the 1 ton rams are rated 30,000 lbs you have to equip the truck properly to achieve that rating.

 

[newbury]

The RV and Farm exemption can take advantage of these new tow ratings along with properly licensed drivers.

I don't see how it can backfire. My last car could do 160 mph but I never drove it that fast.

Chris

I mentioned the RV. The point was that states are "cracking down" and squeezing more tax revenue out thru easy traffic stops. The heavier duty dually trucks are "targets of opportunity". I've read reports here of stricter enforcement in New York, one of the states I drive thru on occasion. It also seems some states view any trailer over 10K capacity as CDL, mine is 12.5, I try not to drive it in those states. I have not read of states caring about your top speed if it goes over 25MPH (?). I think in some states if you've got a vehicle like an ATV and it doesn't go over 25 it doesn't have to be licensed. I haven't read of them taxing you more for a car that will do 140 versus 90. But a lot of them tax you more if your GVWR is higher. In Maryland you get to pay extra if your GVW is over 7K.

The "backfire" I was referring to was if Ram rates the truck for < 26K it goes under CDL. Over 26K and doing commercial business it's automatically CDL when you've got a trailer. My relatives (Doctors, Dentists) won't buy anything that's liable to get them stopped. They are very careful of not even looking like they are over the limit. That's the reason the last truck my BIL bought is a Ram SRW, he wanted a dually, he could easily afford a dually, he likes the way a dually handles when he hauls "stuff", but he doesn't want to take a chance of getting pulled over. It "just doesn't look good".

ok, now this is helpful, vs. brand bashing, though not half as much fun... I don't have a CDL...knew I didn't need one with this motorhome, but if I rent a ten ton trailer from Sunbelt Rentals, and pull it with an F350, do I need to go through licensing? I need an education on "regular" work trailers vs. fifth wheels.
thanks<snip>

Only if you are hauling it for commerce. But commerce includes ANYTHING for money. Including winning a prize at a baking contest.

And I think the 26K CDL rule is arbitrary (why not 25 or 27?) but you have to draw a line somewhere.

 

[daugen]

good, no hauling for commerce. Ever. I ticked off a friend's neighbor who thought I was being snooty or "unavailable" because I didn't want to clear some trees for someone else he knew for money with my Kubota and grapple after a bad storm. But, but you don't understand, this is for good money. Yes, thank you, I understand all too well actually. The problem is the money ruins it if you aren't covered with commercial truck insurance and general liability. And as a retired insurance agent, i sure am not going to run bare, ever, without that big umbrella over my head. I'm human, I can screw up, but let the insurance company pay for it, it's what they do. The whole basic concept of transfer of risk. And we all know there is huge financial risk driving on today's roads, if you get seriously unlucky and run a redlight, and force/crash a gasoline tanker into a strip shopping center. So if you have assets you just don't want to disappear, and leave you, well, hungry, you just can't run uninsured.

what a great morning I had. Well, it started well. Bought a Toyota Avalon just stopping by on the way to the Ford dealer, had time to kill and there it was, charcoal grey with black leather. About ten percent off list. Not the fanciest one, but boy it drove nicely and I've been trying to figure out what to replace the VW, since I no longer need a small car to tow. And the Toyota in the low thirties was by far the least expensive option. Need a quiet comfortable road car and I would have spent more on the Cadillac but I despise their CUE interface so that is a nonstarter. The Avalon's touch stuff worked perfectly, quickly, and was easy to use and understand what was what. And no, it is sure no Cadillac inside. I think Road& Track scored it highest in full size sedans, well until you start buying german stuff for triple the price. In charcoal grey the GGG, godawful guppie grill...sort of disappears better as it is the same color... I bought my first new car from this dealership in 1971. I wonder if my old points are good...

why all this Toyota stuff? Well because when I hustled out of the Toyota dealer to go half a mile away to the Ford dealer, the guy no showed me. I finally asked someone to call him on his cell and apparently he was running late from lunch after a meeting. Maybe another fifteen minutes. I quietly left. He had my cell number.
no way to make a sale for sure.

so...had a nice chat with a newbie at Reedman Toll Chrysler/Ram in Langhorne, and he admitted upon my somewhat intense but nice questioning that he had only been there four months and had only sold one 1500. When I told him what I needed, he admitted they had a good truck guy but he wasn't in today, could I wait until tomorrow?
Of course. And yes, they would let me take the truck out on 95, which is right nearby and get it up to 60 and put on the cruise. I want to see how noisy it is and how it handles expansion joints.
New 2014 Ram 3500 Laramie For Sale | Langhorne PA
not a bad looking truck, but at least it's in a deep charcoal grey, looks like a super dark version of the grey on my suburban. who knows, have to see it.

What's interesting is that this is a 2014. We all know the power gets bumped in the next model year. I saw one further out dealer offering a Ram 3500 dually at 8 grand off. since the new one has more power, I would think the incentives would be there to flush out the older models.
And my thinking is, I'm pulling eight tons, at most 9, not ten or 11, so do I really need "next years" power? particularly when I can get the current model for a huge discount. I'm thinking spend less and likely be quite happy with what Ram offers in 2014. This is all one upsmanship anyway, though more power normally makes driving easier.

 

[downslope]

...The "backfire" I was referring to was if Ram rates the truck for < 26K it goes under CDL. Over 26K and doing commercial business it's automatically CDL when you've got a trailer...

Dodge doesn't "rate" the truck >26K, they only say that it can TOW > 26K. The maximum Gross Vehicle Weight for those trucks is at most 14K. In "most" states they will add the GVWR of the truck to the GVWR of the trailer and only if the total is >26K and commercial use do you need a CDL. On pickups up to 1-ton, the combination weight rating isn't even printed anywhere on the truck; it might be in the owner's manual. I don't worry about CDL as long as the total package is not >26K.

 

[nc redneck]

I also would not be worried about a large 5th wheel. Get stuck at a campground with 3 days of rain and they all get very small quickly. Buy good equipment regardless of brand and I don't think you will be disappointed.
Length is a issue with some older campgrounds. I really wanted something under 38 feet, but could not find one that would do what I wanted and haul golf cart. Less length and more slides are better IMO. The longer they are harder to back in tight campsites and leveling and door steps can be a issue.
I would also recommend triple axel with michelin E load tires. One blow out will cost you more in body repair than cost of tires.
Weight police typically leave RVs alone.
Good Luck.
Scott

 

[daugen]

gorgeous rig Scott. Nice "deer clearer"....could sure use those here.
so, you are pulling between 17K and 19K with that rig, with a duramax dually, rated to pull how much?
3.73 rear?
KZ RV New Vision Sportster Toy Hauler Fifth Wheels | Reviews, Floorplans, Specs, Pictures and Price Quotes

I have learned the wisdom of the "big rig" campgrounds. They really are easier to get in and out of, less sharp turns, etc. But sometimes you want to go somewhere else, that perfect spot along the lake, and one can only back in...

do they make cameras that go on the back of a fifth wheel trailer for backing?

do triple axles make turning harder? I like the idea of more tires on the road, less single points of failure.

 

[Reg]

gorgeous rig Scott. Nice "deer clearer"....could sure use those here.
so, you are pulling between 17K and 19K with that rig, with a duramax dually, rated to pull how much?
3.73 rear?
KZ RV New Vision Sportster Toy Hauler Fifth Wheels | Reviews, Floorplans, Specs, Pictures and Price Quotes

I have learned the wisdom of the "big rig" campgrounds. They really are easier to get in and out of, less sharp turns, etc. But sometimes you want to go somewhere else, that perfect spot along the lake, and one can only back in...

do they make cameras that go on the back of a fifth wheel trailer for backing?

do triple axles make turning harder? I like the idea of more tires on the road, less single points of failure.

Yes, there are any number of back up cameras that can be mounted on the tail of long trailers, some are wireless.
I just got a new "trucker" Rand McNally GPS that has an input for a back-up camera.
Not clear that I will actually USE it, I tend to "walk it first" - old fashioned I guess.
I was taught to not drive into anything I couldn't back out of, so when it looks iffy I back in.
If that doesn't work out at least I can still pull out forwards - then give up (-:
I might use a camera INSIDE the trailer to watch the horses, although having done that before I know it can be a HUGE driving distraction )-;

Yes, triple axles SCRUB more, wear more, etc. but sudden blow outs are less dramatic.
A well balanced trailer on tandem axles won't always "tell you" when a tire goes out - which is scary, you could go quite a way before the other one on that side overheats and blows out, THEN you would have a problem - make that a PROBLEM !!!!
I'm about to tangent off to TPMS.....

 

[kevinwak]

[QUOTE="daugen;

do they make cameras that go on the back of a fifth wheel trailer for backing?
.[/QUOTE]

The cab cam camera I had on my tractor for a while would be great for large campers. It was a wired system. Came with a 20' and 100' cable. That allowed for the connection at the trailer hitch. It also had inputs for four cameras and the ability to wire them into signal and reverse lights. That way when the left signal came on the camera on the left of the truck or trailer came on. Same with the right and reverse. You could also set it to scroll through the different cams every three seconds...

Sent from my iPhone using TractorByNet

 

[daugen]

one of the things I took off the motorhome, because I would get nothing extra for it, was the wireless tpms system that I had on every tire of the motorhome, the dolly wheels and the back two tires of the toad. So I have ten sensors, I'm good to go on a double axle, or a triple, as it will warn if the pressure drops ten percent. Or hopefully before it drops to the point where it blows and shreds.

 

[aczlan]

The cab cam camera I had on my tractor for a while would be great for large campers. It was a wired system. Came with a 20' and 100' cable. That allowed for the connection at the trailer hitch. It also had inputs for four cameras and the ability to wire them into signal and reverse lights. That way when the left signal came on the camera on the left of the truck or trailer came on. Same with the right and reverse. You could also set it to scroll through the different cams every three seconds...

Make/model? Might be useful for me

Aaron Z

 

[LA Confederate]

I think the iBall is a wireless camera system that can be placed for hookup or on the back of the rig for backup or whatever.

 

[kevinwak]

Make/model? Might be useful for me Aaron Z

It was Cab Cam brand. Bought from an ag supply store. Mine was a wired and weatherproof model, as I had it mounted in an open station tractor.

 

[newbury]

I think the iBall is a wireless camera system that can be placed for hookup or on the back of the rig for backup or whatever.

Just steer clear of the Swift Hitch - I had one and it was great until the built-in battery failed and they couldn't replace it. Wanted me to buy a new camera.

The iBall is supposed to use a 9volt.

 

[nc redneck]

Daugen
When I first bought the rig I carried it to weight scale loaded with golf cart ( 1200 lb ) but no water. It was at 16,500 - 16,800. I was pulling it with 2001 duramax 3500 at the time. It did a good job ( with 250 HP custom computer tune ) until we hit the mountains going uphill was good for the weight, but down ( Black Mountain ) required a Pacbrake install.
My new Chevy 2013 handles the RV like a dream, I think tow rating is for 23,500. The brakes and suspension are outstanding. It still needed extra fuel storage so added 45 gallon tank tool box combo. May add transfer flow A/M fuel tank in the future.
Triple axels do scrub a bit when backing into tight spot ( never created a problem ). But if you do the math even with G or better rated tires you cant pull this kind of weight and have any extra allowance for heat . I am a big believer Michelin Ribs 16 inch E loads tires.
Not trying to restart brand war, But a few years ago I had a 43 foot fiberglass twin 350 CID I/O houseboat with flybridge. I had a custom made 5 axle gooseneck trailer for it. Weight was around 30,000 LBs. I used the 2001 3500 to put it in and out lake as needed for service and was scared every time I did it. Pulling up ramp was not so bad (4 wheel low ) but backing it down would pucker your rear end.
I still believe anyone who puts 30,000 on one of these trucks is a idiot regardless of brand.
Hope this helps
Scott

 

[jwstewar]

I have the iBall camera. It does just use a 9-volt Duracell battery. The reason why I say Duracell, it has problems with other brands (including Engergizer) batteries. I actually called Tech Support and that was their recommendations and it solved my issues. Other than that it works well for hooking up. To use it on the back of a trailer I don't think the 9-volt battery would last long on the camera and besides that, I don't think the range would be long enough to work on the back of a trailer as there can be times it has interference just at the back of my truck or Suburban. Usually though it is clear and works well.

 

[daugen]

well I did it, and bought the dually Ram 3500. I got the one rated for 14 tons, with a 4.10 rear. White Laramie, tan/brown interior, rode surprisingly well for an unloaded maxxed out dually, put your foot in it and it sounds and feels like a train leaping forward, some serious power there. Seats were firmer than I thought they would be, but are probably long term comfortable, heated and cooled. I thought I would shop around but I didn't need to. i got the senior guy there, who is the one they all go to, and said he wanted to make it simple. He sold me the truck at dealer invoice less three grand in rebates, or 9 thousand off msrp. 62k down to 53.
Likely too much truck but better too much than too little. And this way I can go buy any fifth wheel I want, and no problem hauling farm machinery.
Comfortable inside, reasonably quiet, for a truck..., and a reasonable amount of little jerky motions. And this one came with the fifth wheel bed reinforcement already built in. should not have any problem pulling with this thing.

my biggest regret is not being able to go through fast food lanes. Oh well, probably a very good thing for me. Get out and walk...
they had a black one and a white one and that new chocolate brown. White hid the chrome best so I went with that.

I would have preferred the 3.73 rear but at 60mph it was only taching 1800 so that seemed fine.

pics will follow next week or whenever I pick it up. My suburban is getting detailed on Monday and the couple who want to buy it will be over shortly thereafter, and then the dealer will do a courtesy trade so I save the tax money. All good.

 

[LA Confederate]

Awesome! Congrats on the new Cummins. Those are great trucks. If you're into forums and learning more about the trucks, I'd highly recommend CumminsForum.com as a great place to go. Lots of great information and great people on there. Just be careful if you want to mod the truck to get a little more out of it. Once you start modding the truck, it's really hard to stop.