Latest grab by auto manufactures

[JasperFrank]

Probably stepping too close to political, but this new federal subsidy bill for domestic chip makers has me miffed and confused at the same time.
The USA invented and owned the Semiconductor IC market for 40 years. Then slowly offshored near all manufacturing to the place we are at now, where by the tail is now wagging the dog. We designed ourselves out of any domestic production following the least cost rules of capitalism and international markets.
And somehow the answer is a "gift" from the American tax payer to fix all the cost savings domestic electronic designers, and Corp CEOs, and bean counters, used to make their products cheaper, pad their quarterly reports, and gain their bonuses. And then.... all of a sudden we find, that we can't source the very chips we use to make stuff here?
TSMC or Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company makes damn near everything we design with. We have become dependent on a company based on an island that Mainland China wants to bring back into the fold, creating a very ugly National Interest situation in which the sabers are already rattling.

I guess my question is, why didn't we retain a lead role in semi-conductor fab.?

Taiwan is a Republic, at least it is called that. Yet, it is a very strange one. Up till 1971, it was recognized as an independent county by the UN. That is no longer the case, and it is considered by the UN, now to be a territory of China.

 

[tacticalturnip]

I guess my question is, why didn't we retain a lead role in semi-conductor fab.?

We were sold out by folks who were quite talented at urinating on us and convincing us it was rain.

 

[Buggs67]

Probably stepping too close to political, but this new federal subsidy bill for domestic chip makers has me miffed and confused at the same time.

Along the same lines, thought process, is the Gov't subsidizing electric vehicle. By giving a tax credit to buyers and installing the infrastructure to charge EVs they are using MY tax dollars for EV producers and purchasers.

It's as bad as them bailing out banks who then pay US 0.05% interest as they reap the benefits of the pro-credit monetary policy.

Our Gov't is screwing us at every turn.

 

[ultrarunner]

I remember well even in the early 80's the greater SF Bay Area had lots of manufacturing... toured Apple line in Fremont, HP in Palo Alto, plus many more on the hardware side and it was all quality... heck my Apple //e had never crashed or needed a software update and Visacalc never missed a beat... 40+ years going strong!

 

[IndyJay]

We were sold out by folks who were quite talented at urinating on us and convincing us it was rain.

Yeah, but it was a warm, gentle rain.

 

[Buggs67]

Yeah, but it was a warm, gentle rain.

 

[IndyJay]

Along the same lines, thought process, is the Gov't subsidizing electric vehicle. By giving a tax credit to buyers and installing the infrastructure to charge EVs they are using MY tax dollars for EV producers and purchasers.

It's as bad as them bailing out banks who then pay US 0.05% interest as they reap the benefits of the pro-credit monetary policy.

Our Gov't is screwing us at every turn.

Generally I am against the government picking losers and winners with subsidies, but what do you do when we are being flooded with imports from subsidized or flat out government owned industries? Especially items which are obvious national security sensitive?

I think that tariffs against these State actors is very appropriate. It allows domestic companies to compete against these basically "non-profit" State owned industries that often rely on slave or child labor to produce goods. It also punishes, or at least removes incentives, for domestic companies to move jobs abroad.

Unfortunately "corrupt people" find ways to play both of those angles. I will leave it at that so that it does not appear to be political.

 

[MossRoad]

Probably stepping too close to political, but this new federal subsidy bill for domestic chip makers has me miffed and confused at the same time.
The USA invented and owned the Semiconductor IC market for 40 years. Then slowly offshored near all manufacturing to the place we are at now, where by the tail is now wagging the dog. We designed ourselves out of any domestic production following the least cost rules of capitalism and international markets.
And somehow the answer is a "gift" from the American tax payer to fix all the cost savings domestic electronic designers, and Corp CEOs, and bean counters, used to make their products cheaper, pad their quarterly reports, and gain their bonuses. And then.... all of a sudden we find, that we can't source the very chips we use to make stuff here?
TSMC or Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company makes damn near everything we design with. We have become dependent on a company based on an island that Mainland China wants to bring back into the fold, creating a very ugly National Interest situation in which the sabers are already rattling.

I guess my question is, why didn't we retain a lead role in semi-conductor fab.?

Taiwan is a Republic, at least it is called that. Yet, it is a very strange one. Up till 1971, it was recognized as an independent county by the UN. That is no longer the case, and it is considered by the UN, now to be a territory of China.

When something is invented in the USA it doesn’t mean the USA invented it. More often than not, it was a private company that’s free to do whatever it wants. So do we want free enterprise or government control?

To answer your question:

“I guess my question is, why didn't we retain a lead role in semi-conductor fab.?“

The keyword being ‘we’. It wasn’t ‘we’. U.S.based industry is not a player on team USA. It’s a player in the global market that’s only here to take advantage of the knowledge and skills our workforce has to offer and the money our consumers have to spend, with the goal of maximizing profit.

The same discussion goes on when talking about US oil independence. The US doesn’t produce any oil, yet oil is produced in the US. It’s sad, but true, there’s no ‘US’ in USA when it comes to our system of manufacturing.

 

[IndyJay]

When something is invented in the USA it doesn’t mean the USA invented it. More often than not, it was a private company that’s free to do whatever it wants. So do we want free enterprise or government control?

To answer your question:

“I guess my question is, why didn't we retain a lead role in semi-conductor fab.?“

The keyword being ‘we’. It wasn’t ‘we’. U.S.based industry is not a player on team USA. It’s a player in the global market that’s only here to take advantage of the knowledge and skills our workforce has to offer and the money our consumers have to spend, with the goal of maximizing profit.

The same discussion goes on when talking about US oil independence. The US doesn’t produce any oil, yet oil is produced in the US. It’s sad, but true, there’s no ‘US’ in USA when it comes to our system of manufacturing.

It wasn't always that way. At one time Corporations realized that what was good for America WAS good for business. They lost sight of long term security in exchange for quick return. That is why we have gone from being one of the world's largest manufacturer to a service economy.

 

[Fixastuff]

It wasn't always that way. At one time Corporations realized that what was good for America WAS good for business. They lost sight of long term security in exchange for quick return. That is why we have gone from being one of the world's largest manufacturer to a service economy.

Stockholders required never ending immediate returns is to blame.