New engine for my F-600 Dump Truck

[EddieWalker]

Got the block back and it's about re-assembled. Tomorrow morning it should go into the dump truck.

Cost for machine work and materials came to $1,600. That included 8 new exhaust valves at $40 each, which nobody expected. The block had to have a sleeve put into one cylinder and it was all bored .040 over. New cam, timing gears, bearings, freeze plugs, pistons, oil pump, gaskets and resurfacing the fly wheel, exhaust manifolds, plus all the labor was part of that price. I also had six exhaust bolts break off that needed drilling and tapping, boiling and cleaning the intake manifold plust they assembled the lower end. They gave me a six month gurantee if they assemble it. No gurantee otherwise. I'm probably forgetting something, but that's the basics of it.

The replacement block was $250.

Clutch, fluids, hoses, bolts, filters, belts and who knows what else was another $300.

I wonder if it would have been better to find a 460 block and put that in instead? Too late now, but in hindsite, I think that might have been the smarter move. Parts for the 370 are just too expensive.

Eddie

 

[Nat]

Eddie, it may have been cheaper to go with a 460, but you would have had a lot less engine. The 370 is made for a truck, and has a lot different cam. The 370 has a ton more torque than a 460, and for what a dump truck is used for that is worth a lot. A 460 is a higher reving engine, and has a lot less low rpm torque than the 370, lighter bearings, and will overheat if lugged like a dump truck will be lugged. You made the right choice. Later, Nat
PS , How about a PM with your snail mail address. Vickie and Becky want to send Steph a card. Nat

 

[CATMAN]

Eddie, Did you send the radiator out to be cleaned and pressure tested? Is the fan "solid" or "clutch" style? Was there a fan shroud on the radiator for the fan? I assume the machine shop installed new thermostats for you. Just trying to think ahead, so you don't overheat that newly rebuilt engine. I'm sure your machinist told you that on first start-up(with new cam and lifters), you must hold rpms around 1500-2000 rpms for the first 20 minutes to properly "break-in" the cam lobes to the bottoms of the lifters. (use whatever rpms the cam manufacturer suggests) This requires that one needs to be close on ignition timing right from the start. One another thing: I seen people get so excited and in a hurry to "turn the key", that they even forget the basics: Double-check oil level !!! Double-check coolant level !!! Is the coolant system have the air purge out? [some people remove any small pipe plug high up on the intake manifold (or a temp sender) while they slowly add water/antifreeze to the radiator. This method allows you to see the coolant rise inside the engine, thus no air pockets.] Make sure truck is in Neutral, etc. Is the oil filter on tight enough? Does the oil pressure sending unit work or do you have a manual test gauge? Good Luck

 

[EddieWalker]

Nat,

Thanks for the info on the engine. It almost sounds like the 370 is like a diesel in some ways. hahahaha I was wondering how much I would have really saved with a 460 anyway. For a little over 2 grand, I have a brand new engine and clutch. That's not too bad considering I'd probably only save a few hundred if I'd switched over to a different engine.

I sent you an email with our information.

Catman,

One of the first thigs I did when we started having problems with the dump truck was to take out the radiator and have it cleaned and tested. They fixed a few holes and it's all good now. The shroud had a few chunks missing out of it, so I patched them with some tin and rivits. The fan is solid. No clutches or anything. It's always gonna spin.

The engine has two thermostats and they are both new.

These fixes worked for a little bit, but at idle, it still overheated. We would turn off the engine while loading it, then start it to drive off and dump it. This worked for a week, but it just got worse and impossible to keep cool.

One of the theories we had was that the oil was dieseling in the combustion chamber and causing it to overheat. Obviosly I was dead wrong, but it got me to pull the engine and learn what was really wrong with it. EVERYTHING!!! hahaha

Thanks for the tips on start up. No suprises there, but good solid advice.

Thank you,
Eddie

 

[Dallas_Lilly]

I also like to prime the engine by turning the oil pump with a drill and having somebody else crank the engine with a ratchet at the same time, gets oil in all the right places but most importantly you can also stick a manual guage in the guage port and make sure you have oil pressure before actually starting the engine. I have once caught my self leaving the oil galley plugs from behind the timing cover on a 351W - the mistake was allot easier to fix while on the stand than in the truck.

 

[hilld]

Eddie, it may have been cheaper to go with a 460, but you would have had a lot less engine. The 370 is made for a truck, and has a lot different cam. The 370 has a ton more torque than a 460, and for what a dump truck is used for that is worth a lot. A 460 is a higher reving engine, and has a lot less low rpm torque than the 370, lighter bearings, and will overheat if lugged like a dump truck will be lugged. You made the right choice. Later, Nat
PS , How about a PM with your snail mail address. Vickie and Becky want to send Steph a card. Nat

Not just that, the 460 has a nasty habit of warping exhaust manifolds and breaking the bolts off. I used to see those all the time, especially if they were installed in buses or motor homes, but also in pickups. Gee, I don't miss working on those anymore.

Derek

 

[RobJ]

Rob,

Because a worn timing chain retards both the valve and iginition timing, (unless the ignition timing is reset as it wears) but there isn't anything you can do about resetting the valve timing. A new timing chain will also help fuel economy noticably, especially if you advance the valve timing with either an offset key or a special multiple keyed drive gear.

Years ago I had a 73 Dodge Charger with 400 big block, and the avg economy increased a whopping 20% by replacing the timing chain and advancing the valve timing with an offset key. Going from 10 mpg to 12 mpg doesn't sound like much, but it's 20%. Glad I don't have that gas hog with today's gas prices!

Well I don't know about 50hp increase. The only part of the chain that effects the timing(say stretched part) is 3 inches or so on the tension side. Even the old GM plastic gears looked ugly and even though we replaced them they were not bad at less than 100k. But an engine with many miles on her I'll say it could be effected slightly. But how do you measure gas mileage on a Charger?

With the gasser comment I guess you are driving a diesel pickup? Diesel up to 35 cents more a gallon around here now with gas prices dropping like a rock. I filled up the other day for $2.54. TV reports gas in the $2.40's around Houston(somewhere). Maybe diesel and the winter blend costs more. I still have to buy diesel so it sucks as well. Another oil guy on the TV say the winter blend of gas is easier to make, refiners get about 7% more per bbl if I recall. He expected another 15 cent drop in gas prices soon. I do have a thirsty v10 but I only drive about 10 miles round trip per day.


Eddie,

That is a sweet dump truck. My BIL has been looking for one forever that's decent. If he ever gets one it'll be another item for me to fix i'm sure. That engine sort of reminded me of my motor building days in highschool, in the summer I worked as a framer building houses. The Chevy tilt bed trucks that unloaded the lumber had a 366 or 402 or some other big block in them. the cams and duals made them sound like a street racer. I bet that big motor has some guts and sounds cool. Dual thermostats is worth an extra 10 hp you know!

Like that Ford Blue!!

 

[kmdigital]

Rob,

I wasn't vouching for the 50 HP increase, just that it can increase power and mpg. And I drive a 94 Honda Accord or a 96 Ford E350 diesel van. 29 mpg avg with the Honda in a combination of town and country driving, and about 17.5 on the van. Don't drive it unless I have to for the tools, etc, with the unreasonable difference in gas and diesel prices. Gas is around $2.50 currently, and diesel anywhere from $2.87 to $3.19

 

[RobJ]

I wasn't vouching for the 50 HP increase,

Didn't mean to imply you were...that just drew my attention. Glad you are seeing some relief at the pumps.

 

[EddieWalker]

While putting the engine together, I noticed that I can see and touch the timing chain throught the mechanical fuel pump opening. Not sure if this helps, but if I'd have known this, I'd have pulled the fuel pump just to check the condition of the timing chain. I had my doubts about it, bu never imagined it would have been as bad as it was!!!

Derek,

Thanks for the tip on the 460, but I'm still breaking off bolts. Had to have the machine shop remove them from the head because almost half of them broke off removing the exhaust mainifolds.

Then while putting the exhaust manifolds on, my dad had the head come off a brand new grade 8 bolt. It went in so far nice and easy, then it just broke off. That bolt came from Napa, which suprised me. I drilled it and got it out with an easy out, but it's a pain in the butt to have to do.

Then while putting the clutch on, I had the same thing happen to me. Brand new Grade 8 bolt lost it's head while tightening it up with the impact. I wasn't tight and those threads go all the way through the flywheel. An hour later of mental anguish, and I had it out. I tapped it and it was fine after that.

The surfaces of the exhaust manifolds were so pitted that I had to have them welded up and then machined smooth. This in turn changed my angle that they sit and align with the exhaust pipes. There is no way to get them on. Since the muffler is old and rusted real bad, I've decided to put on duel exhaust. It will be easy to fit the angle of the manifolds and I'll get a good seal this way. Before the rebuild, it leaked real bad around there anyway, so it's never been a good setup to begin with.

To put the transmission back on the engine, I first picked up the engine with my tractor cherry picker. Getting it level was hit and miss. hahaha Then I lined up the tranny on my floor jack and adjusted the height. After that, it just about slid together on it's own!!!

An hour later, it was in the truck on it's mounts. That also went pretty smoothly.

Of course, Murphy showed up when it came to bolting it all down. There are two motor mounts at the front of the engine that went in easy. The transmission mounts were another story. It sits of a rubber pad that is on an angle. I had to jack up the tranny to get it to line up, but when I lowered it, the angle made it slide, which pushed the top of the rubber plate of from the bottom part. It was one of those nightmares that lasted a few hours to get one bolt in, but in the end, it finally happened.

My Dad found a guy he really likes for muffler work, so he's going there this morning to get that done. I'll keep on putting things back on the engine until it's all whole again.

Eddie