O my, I am comfused

[gladehound]

The grousers on the Dozer were not just worn down to nothing, they were "gone". Or as near as I can tell from the crummy video resolution.

Coming from farm country and not construction country, all of the dozers I've ever been around were old machines that a farmer had picked up cheap. All the tracks were smooth. I didn't even realize they were supposed to have grousers! :laughing:

So I looked at new dozers on the internet after reading your comment and Yea, I can see how a track full of metal bars (basically the metal track version of R1 tires) would be superior to R1 tires for pulling in any surface soft enough for them to dig in.

This is a perfect example of needing to be specific on these threads, otherwise people become poorly educated. There are lots of different tracks out there - rubber, metal, smooth or with traction aids, different styles of traction aids. For this reason, a general statement like "tracks will out pull tires" can lead someone down the wrong path if they buy into it.

 

[Ooklaa]

What are the critical details you need?

That being said tho the sub compact machines are just starting to look over priced to me. That doesnt mean i wont buy one, but i am exploring compact machines now. As far as putting the machine in my grass i also have that in mind. I dont want to ruin my lawn, so i will be cautious moving forward.

I dont have any real seat time in tractors, i know this. But common sense tells my if a subcompact costs 16g and i can get a compact for 20g and can put alot more implememts on the compact well then i am going to look inot that.

I like the john deere 1025r and the price. But i cannot put a real grapple on it, (weight) i canot put a post whole digger on it(john deere does not recommend it. If a put a thumb style grapple(smallest version) or a regular grapple on it i need to get some type of 3rd valve on it, then i cannot buy a rear back ho if i want in the future. I also cannot put a wood splitter on it. Im gonna keep whatever machine i buy forever. As life moves forward and lets say new thing arise i already shot myself in the foot and the machine is not readynfor the futurE.

I have stated that i want to move log length firewood around. Well in order to get a grapple attachemnt i aleady am limiting my lift capacity on a sub compact. I also stated i want a log splitter attachemnt. and a mower. These 3 reason are why i am buying a tractor for the present time.

The one machine i like is am looking at is a massey furguson (1726e\1734e)but these do not allow a mmm deck. I have to get a rear mower which im not sure if i will like. Also a john deere looking at jd 2025r and 2032. Yes the bigger hp machine have the dpf, but thats 1,000 hrs away and i wont hit that until 10 years from now.

I have found some superior deals on manuals. Which everyone on this thread has told me to get a hydro. But I don't see the huge negative as others. That said i am going to test drive some manuals on monday and use the loader at the same time.

 

[jenkinsph]

I talked with my dealer yesterday about the difference in price between a 1025R and the 3032R and was told about $7500 roughly. Helping a friend of mine choose what to get, not for me. When you say you want to move full length logs, that makes a huge difference in what is needed. Just my thought but WHY? It would seem cutting down the logs to fit the smaller machine would save thousands of dollars and be easier to maneuver in tight quarters. I suspect you are setting up parameters and or guide lines that don't work well together, heavy fel work and lawn work require different machine designs.

After about 50 years using tractors and equipment I think I have a handle on what works best for me.

I use the x749 mower without fel or extra weight for mowing and maintaining my lawn areas. I want this to be as light as possible so it doesn't track up the lawn. I have attachments for box blade, pine straw rake, collection system, drop seeder, broadcast spreader, land scape rake, rear bade, chipper and land plane grader, This allows me to keep my lawn and a few customers lawns in good shape. Only on rare occasions do I need to put a larger machine on these lawns.

The compact backhoe and compact tractors are used to build these landscapes initially and are not needed much to maintain the finished lawns. To safely and effectively use the fel and pull heavy box blades requires these tractors to weigh too much for routine mowing of a manicured lawn. Removing the fel might be easy but removing rear tire weights or fluid isn't practical. Using a weighted machine on routine lawn mowing will cause the lawn to suffer.

My suggestion is to have a separate light weight mower for the lawn and a few attachments for maintaining the lawn. A separate tractor with fel could be ballasted properly for the heavier work. This could be new or used and kept off the lawn for the most part.

 

[Ooklaa]

Well to pic up those logs you need a grapple. The logs can be cut down obviosuly. But just putting a grapple in a sub compact pretty much just make the loader useless from what inhave been reading. I have seen plenty of videos of compacts tractors mowing lawns perfectly. Maybe not when the ground is wet, but ill wait for it to dry then.

 

[AxleHub]

Nikko, if you are going to be at a massey dealer this week . . Be sure to try out a gc1715. You can have a choice of 4 different mower decks. You can add a quick attach feature to the front end loader thru

MyTractorTools.com

and that same business sells 4 different grapple versions that can use the same quick attach. They also offer front and rear forks again using the quick attach feature. I got a set of forks for my gc1715 from them . . . And their unique advantage is they can be used on the front end loader AND they can be usrd on the 3 pt as well.

Thru many vendors you can add a rear tiller or bush hogg or rear blade or blower.

 

[AxleHub]

Well to pic up those logs you need a grapple. The logs can be cut down obviosuly. But just putting a grapple in a sub compact pretty much just make the loader useless from what inhave been reading. I have seen plenty of videos of compacts tractors mowing lawns perfectly. Maybe not when the ground is wet, but ill wait for it to dry then.

Nikko,

As I mentioned in a post quite awhile ago on this thread . . I put just under 500 pounds of log in my gc1715 bucket and when I get my mini grapple I'll be able to carry a 600 pound log.

 

[gladehound]

What are the critical details you need? ...I have stated that i want to move log length firewood around. Well in order to get a grapple attachemnt i aleady am limiting my lift capacity on a sub compact. I also stated i want a log splitter attachment. and a mower. These 3 reason are why i am buying a tractor for the present time.

Log length firewood could mean 300 pounds or 3000 pounds - each having very different machine requirements. I have a friend that get's log length logs delivered but he doesn't get to pick the size of the logs and some have been 3+ foot diameter. Specifically, how much weight do you want to be able to lift from the ground, off a truck or to a certain height?

Grapples tend to be heavy and with the limited lift capacity of a SCUT the extra weight of the grapple will severely reduce your lift capacity. If the tractor is rated at 1000 pounds at the pins and has 5 ft loader arms and center of your load is 2 ft past the loader arms you only have about 700 pounds of lift at the load center. If you now replace your bucket with a grapple that weighs 200 pounds more, you have 500 pounds of lift. And it would have to be a very light grapple to only weigh 200 pounds more than your bucket. With the wrong SCUT grapple combo you could end up with little useable lift.

Others have discussed the hydraulic flow requirements for a splitter. So I wont rehash.

Mowing - Again - not a fan of mowing with a loader machine. And think you should have two separate machines. I understand that you don't want to maintain a separate machine. Keep in mind, that you will spend more time taking a mowing deck on and off of a multipurpose tractor than you will maintaining another engine. And for the price of a SCUT mowing deck you might be able to get a decent machine for your lawn. However, if you want only one machine, you are not necessarily locked into a SCUT. large turf tires on a large CUT will make it float just as well as a SCUT. Just look at the utility tractors golf courses use.

That being said tho the sub compact machines are just starting to look over priced to me. That doesnt mean i wont buy one, but i am exploring compact machines now. As far as putting the machine in my grass i also have that in mind. I dont want to ruin my lawn, so i will be cautious moving forward. [/QOUTE]

Again inexpensive riding mower will do less damage to your lawn than a SCUT. You may want to get one of these and save money for a CUT.

QUOTE] I dont have any real seat time in tractors, i know this. But common sense tells my if a subcompact costs 16g and i can get a compact for 20g and can put alot more implememts on the compact well then i am going to look inot that.

CUTS are the easiest to find implements for. Standard Cat 1 implements are plentiful and with more power you have more options. SCUTs often take Cat 0 implements which are harder to find and aren't always less expensive.

I like the john deere 1025r and the price. But i cannot put a real grapple on it, (weight) i canot put a post whole digger on it(john deere does not recommend it. If a put a thumb style grapple(smallest version) or a regular grapple on it i need to get some type of 3rd valve on it, then i cannot buy a rear back ho if i want in the future. I also cannot put a wood splitter on it. Im gonna keep whatever machine i buy forever. As life moves forward and lets say new thing arise i already shot myself in the foot and the machine is not readynfor the futurE.

I'm glad you're thinking ahead. The vast majority of people who trade in / sell their first tractor do it to get a bigger one. I have the biggest tractor I can trailer without buying a bigger trailer and truck. However, if I had a bigger trailer and truck I would have gone even bigger. It would be a little easier to do some things that I do. I don't think any SCUT or even small CUT makes a great post hole digging tractor - 3pt lift height and force are important for this. One of the mistakes I made was not getting all the hydraulics I could have initially. I opted for 1 rear remote when 2 were available. Well now I wish I had 3! Once you have the tractor, you will find even more things to do with it so I like the way you are thinking about hydraulics and future needs.

The one machine i like is am looking at is a massey furguson (1726e\1734e)but these do not allow a mmm deck. I have to get a rear mower which im not sure if i will like. Also a john deere looking at jd 2025r and 2032. Yes the bigger hp machine have the dpf, but thats 1,000 hrs away and i wont hit that until 10 years from now.

For the price of a good deck for a tractor, you can get a dedicated mower. If going 26+ hp, see if there are any leftovers with interim Tier IV emissions. They should be less expensive and need less maintenance than the Tier IV tractors.

I have found some superior deals on manuals. Which everyone on this thread has told me to get a hydro. But I don't see the huge negative as others. That said i am going to test drive some manuals on monday and use the loader at the same time.

The clouds open, a ray of light shines through and the choir sings! HST is nice, very nice. But I'm a huge gear fan because the value proposition is really good. Don't be scared of gear tractors. They are harder to get good with but once you do, the HST advantage is minimized. I found a 45hp left over interim Tier IV tractor with a hydraulic shuttle - so no clutching to change directions - for $19,600 (with loader & rear remote). Compare that to the HST tractors you are looking at. For a little more perspective, my breakout force is near 4000 pounds and full height lift near 3000 pounds. And this larger tractor is not worse on the lawn than my 19 hp was because the tires are proportionately bigger - both are too heavy to mow with IMHO. That is why I have a separate mower.

this is just an example of the value with gear, I know you're not looking at 45 hp tractors... yet

Definitely test drive some gear units and see what you think. They're not for everyone.

 

[4570Man]

With the assistance from your chainsaw a BX can unload a 30" log. A 30 inch diameter 8 foot long log can weigh thousands of pounds. A grapple does slightly reduce the lift capacity over SSQA forks, but it is well worth the compromise.

 

[jenkinsph]

Well to pic up those logs you need a grapple. The logs can be cut down obviosuly. But just putting a grapple in a sub compact pretty much just make the loader useless from what inhave been reading. I have seen plenty of videos of compacts tractors mowing lawns perfectly. Maybe not when the ground is wet, but ill wait for it to dry then.

Let me break this response down. A grapple is a handy tool to have but cutting up enough logs to heat a suburban home I question the need for it. As for whether it will work on a sub compact I did not suggest it and don't recommend it either. Compact tractors without ballast and turf tires can do a decent job of mowing. Compact tractors with ballast can mow a lawn too, but repeated use over the years and the lawn will suffer. If you have many plantings or trees to mow around a zero turn or 4 wheel steer mower will be easier to maneuver with and cause less compaction and ruts over the years. My own preference is for the 4 wheel steer and the hydraulic front wheel 4x4, I haven' experienced any scuffing on my lawn with this set up.

A lot would depend on the size and weight of the logs you are dealing with. A small sub compact or small compact can pick up a decent sized log enough to cut it in two pieces. Obviously a larger tractor can pick up a larger log, so what are you dealing with? This is really about compromises between your uses and you would have to decide which is more important to you.

 

[Ooklaa]

A 1734 e massey which has plenty of power. Manual transmission doesn not hace a mmm deck i have to get a rear. Which im not sure is going to be good as i have many trees. So im thinking of cutting down some tress lol. Im also thinking about the jd 2032 but the warranty is less but has a hydro tranny. Both machine are in the 20g range. Still more then i originnaly wanted to spend. But my original budget hinders me in the future.

Any compact tractors loader you guys know of the can take a mmm that are in the 20g rage?

Jenkin no one can predict the future of what new jobs may come up. But to amswer your question about the logs, when companies drops off logs im pretty their they are big. Like i said i can cut them down with my chainsaw but to make em more movable. I Don't buy log length now I buy em split already. But at more then half the price at log length. One part of my property is in a corner so im not worried about making a mess i can have them deliverd in the corner and do my work their. But when they deliver the logs its gonna a pile of them. I need something to pic them out of the pile(grapple hook) so i can cut and split. Then i can take my loader off put my mower on and cut some grass.

 

[AxleHub]

1. Log size


2. Grapples tend to be heavy and with the limited lift capacity of a SCUT the extra weight of the grapple will severely reduce your lift capacity. If the tractor is rated at 1000 pounds at the pins and has 5 ft loader arms and center of your load is 2 ft past the loader arms you only have about 700 pounds of lift at the load center. If you now replace your bucket with a grapple that weighs 200 pounds more, you have 500 pounds of lift. And it would have to be a very light grapple to only weigh 200 pounds more than your bucket. With the wrong SCUT grapple combo you could end up with little useable lift.


3. CUTS are the easiest to find implements for. Standard Cat 1 implements are plentiful and with more power you have more options. SCUTs often take Cat 0 implements which are harder to find and aren't always less .

Greeting Glade,

1. Nikko has said numerous times he wants to log his small woods for wood for burning . . So he will be able to choose his log sizes.

2. My bucket weighs 155 pounds on my gc1715. When I quick detach it I lose that 155 pounds. When I get my mini grapple and i quick attach it, I will gain 80 pounds thus My loader will have an additional 75 pounds of carrying capacity . . not a minus 200 pounds. The grapple manufacturer I will purchase from specializes in scut products and more specifically fel addons. Bulk steel is the weakest choice per pound and the cheapest to manufacture with. But there are a series of much higher strength steels that cost more per pound but require significantly less weight for the strength ratio. Thatvis specifically why SSQA based implements should be less desireable for scut owners or small compact owners IMO. Skidsteer requirements are far different than scut needs.

3. I'm a bit baffled by your statement that most scuts use cat 0 implements. I personally drove 4 models of bx, 3 models of yanmar scuts, 2 models of mahindra scuts, 3 models of massey scuts, and none of them used cat 0. They all used cat 1. In adfition I looked at several 3pt quick attach choices that were all cat 1 and they all would fiton my 3pt.. I did see a Simplicity mower/with fel and 3 pt. That used cat 0, but that was the only one. I have a cat 1 sprayer and a cat 1 trailer mover and a cat 1 fork set that all work perfectly on my massey gc1715.

Thanks for listening.

 

[AxleHub]

Any compact tractors loader you guys know of the can take a mmm that are in the 20g rage?

.

Yanmar 324 and 424 models.


And as far as log stack. Nobody burns 20 foot logs . . So you cut the log to 4 foot or 6 foot or 8 foot (depending on diameter) while its piled in the stack. Then pull it off the stack in that 4/6/8 foot length with your mini grapple and the gc1715 carries it to your cut and split location. My dad and I did it for years and we didn't even have a tractor or grapple.

 

[jenkinsph]

Gladehound,
I use cat 1 implements on my x749 too, don't have any cat 0 equipment and don't see much of it anywhere either. Everything I buy for the small stuff is IMatch quick coupler compatible. The only time I take off my IMatch is when I need to use the material collection system (MC519) cart which fastens in the place of the hitch arms.

On most of your comments it looks like we are in agreement though.

 

[jenkinsph]

Yanmar 324 and 424 models.


And as far as log stack. Nobody burns 20 foot logs . . So you cut the log to 4 foot or 6 foot or 8 foot (depending on diameter) while its piled in the stack. Then pull it off the stack in that 4/6/8 foot length with your mini grapple and the gc1715 carries it to your cut and split location. My dad and I did it for years and we didn't even have a tractor or grapple.

I agree with this and wonder how we ever got firewood cut and stacked without a loader.
Just kidding, we cut the trees down, cut them up and loaded them in a pickup. Then stacked the stuff up to dry.

 

[AxleHub]

Nikko,

You could do.us all a benefit if you could give us an estimste of how much wood you plan to burn each year at your new house. You can express it in

A. Face cord size (8' long by 4' high by 16 inches deep)

Or by

B. Full cord size (8' long by 4' high by 4' deep)

Whichever you like. But it would help a great deal in knowing your wood use quantity you expect.

I sense it is less than many think . . as you mentioned a couple times you'd cut every one or two years.

 

[Ooklaa]

Axle when the wood companies drop off wood they are in long length, lengths varies im sure. They will pile it up one on top of another. im at a 4-5 cord burning a year. 4 feet high. 4 feet wide, 8 feet long. I buy in bulk for split wood. I Would by in bulk for log length 20 cords. I rotate now so that my wood is drying.

The log length wood by cut up and split over a period of time and I wood not need to order more form a couple of years.

You saying about the grapple for the gc has my face smiling tho. Have a video of it in action on a gc massey?

 

[TomSeller]

Gladehound,
I use cat 1 implements on my x749 too, don't have any cat 0 equipment and don't see much of it anywhere either. Everything I buy for the small stuff is IMatch quick coupler compatible. The only time I take off my IMatch is when I need to use the material collection system (MC519) cart which fastens in the place of the hitch arms.

On most of your comments it looks like we are in agreement though.

I thought Cat 0 mostly went by the wayside. Cat 1-limited Is basically what the smaller tractors have now. It can use standard Cat 1, just doesn't have the travel that a full Cat 1 tractor does. Then as you point out iMatch makes it irrelevant if you have newer compatible attachments.

 

[jenkinsph]

Axle when the wood companies drop off wood they are in long length, lengths varies im sure. They will pile it up one on top of another. im at a 4-5 cord burning a year. 4 feet high. 4 feet wide, 8 feet long. I buy in bulk for split wood. I Would by in bulk for log length 20 cords. I rotate now so that my wood is drying.

The log length wood by cut up and split over a period of time and I wood not need to order more form a couple of years.

You saying about the grapple for the gc has my face smiling tho. Have a video of it in action on a gc massey?

Not getting hurt would seem to be the issue with a log pile imo. I suggest you tie on to the top logs one at a time and pull them off from the end of the pile and cut them to size. A small tractor will do that easily in most cases. You may have an occasional tree that is too big to deal with full length but if you can pull out the other logs around it first you should be able to get it to roll to the bottom of the pile and then cut it up. Lots of older tractors for less than $10,000 can handle this and you could still get a nice mower for the lawn area.

 

[AxleHub]

Axle when the wood companies drop off wood they are in long length, lengths varies im sure. They will pile it up one on top of another. im at a 4-5 cord burning a year. 4 feet high. 4 feet wide, 8 feet long. I buy in bulk for split wood. I Would by in bulk for log length 20 cords. I rotate now so that my wood is drying.

The log length wood by cut up and split over a period of time and I wood not need to order more form a couple of years.

You saying about the grapple for the gc has my face smiling tho. Have a video of it in action on a gc massey?

Not a video but a website description. There is also a video but I have to find it.

MULTI-JAW GRAPPLE!

 

[jenkinsph]

I thought Cat 0 mostly went by the wayside. Cat 1-limited Is basically what the smaller tractors have now. It can use standard Cat 1, just doesn't have the travel that a full Cat 1 tractor does. Then as you point out iMatch makes it irrelevant if you have newer compatible attachments.

I agree but in looking at the 1025R yesterday I can see the hitch arms are a lot longer than on my garden tractor. While no where near as capable as my 4520 they look to be good enough for most small cat 1 implements. I did not start the 1025R to see how much travel the lift has but agree that the cat 1 limited is common to this size machine. Works well enough for most implements in this size. The problem is when all you have is a small machine or a large machine and it doesn't fit all of your needs. that is why I have suggested a mower and a separate tractor for the larger jobs.