Buying Advice Oh no, not another "what tractor should I buy" thread!

[Perplexed]

Hi, this will be my first post on this forum, though I've been reading various threads for some time. I'm sure you're all tired of these "Help!" threads started by new members, but I'd appreciate any friendly advice you can offer. Unfriendly advice would be acceptable too, as long as it's constructive

I'm a homeowner living on 3 acres of bermuda grass, and the tract is 3X as long as it is wide. The house sits way back from the road, and the front yard is flat, mostly uninterrupted lawn with a tree here and there. Currently I mow this yard with a 20-hp zero-turn mower with a 52" MMM and a pair of "rower" handles, and it takes me about 2 1/2 hours each time, going flat out on the long stretches. It's hard to keep the lines nice and straight with this mower, and sometimes I have to mow with only 1/3 of the deck, at a crawl, to keep the mower from bogging down on thick patches of grass. I'm only cutting 1 to 1 1/2 inches of grass at a time, so I think the mower may just be underpowered for the job. Also, in the late summer when it's dry, the dust and dirt kicked up by the mower swirl around me, leaving me looking like Pigpen from "Charlie Brown."

Not only this, but the mower is useless for moving dirt unless I shovel the dirt into a garden wagon, and tow the wagon with the mower. When the snow flies, the mower sits unused in the shop while I watch the white stuff pile up on the 150-yard-long driveway. I've gotten stuck in the house three times in the past two winters, and didn't much care that the mower wasn't earning its keep!

So I'm in the market for a hobby tractor. Given what I've outlined above, I figure I'll probably want to look for something with about 25-30 hp, 4x4 drive, Hydrostat or maybe shuttle transmission, turf tires, a FEL, and a towed finish mower. To keep the lawn from getting ruts or the grass torn up, I probably should look for a tractor with a lower operating weight - perhaps less than 2000 lbs? The tractor would probably be used about 95% of the time as a mower with preferably a 5' finish mower, but when I want to move dirt or snow, I'll want to be able to do that without difficulty.

I'll probably look for a used tractor, and my budget would be $9K for the tractor, FEL, and finish mower. I'm somewhat mechanically inclined, so I can handle basic repairs, but I would like to start with a tractor in good condition, needing nothing, and having a reputation for simple and reliable mechanicals. A local dealer that specializes in refurbished tractors has a couple of reconditioned Yanmars (YM2020D, 2420D) and Fords (1620, 1710) priced around $8000 - 9000 with a new FEL and ag tires, though I'd have to have the tires replaced with turf tires for an additional cost, and I'd need to get a finish mower, so that would put a crack in my budget. The tractors are a bit on the big side, tipping the scales at 2200 pounds and more, but they gave me an idea of what size tractor I'd probably look for (i.e., "no bigger than those!")

What say you good folks? Thanks in advance

 

[whistlepig]

Welcome to TBN! My B7800 weighs 2100 pounds with filled tires. I have never had a problem with it rutting the yard. My RFM weighs 760 pounds. I did own a MF135 that weighed 3300 pounds. I had to be very careful with it or it would rut the yard. Soil conditions vary. In my area I would say around 2500 pounds or less would be OK.

 

[boggen]

3 acres sounds like you are looking for an over size riding lawn mower. but a tractor with 3pt hitch

for snow removal the following would be my choices.
1 snow blower
2 back blade
3 box blade possibly if you have gravel drive way. or need to do some regrading.
4 front end loader with bucket on it.

mowing.
belly mowers (fits under tractor like a typical riding lawn mower) or a 3pt hitch finishing mower. they both work. pending on tractor, you might to have to pull a belly mower out, out when operating 3pt hitch equipment. some times not. then again some times required.

to be honest, have a old allis chalmers CA tractor talking 1950's tractor. with a narrow front end. with a belly mower. i love it. due to the narrow front wheels i am able to whip that steering wheel around step on left back or right brake and do almost zero point turn. without tearing up yard to much with the R-1 (general tractor tires on the back) even in semi wet conditions.

though when i mow i tend to start in the center of my yard. get a small circle cut. then start mowing in a very long spiral circle till i get to the edge of the yard. then finish up the triangle areas last (corners of the yards). mowing in the long spiral circle keeps me from needing to make them real sharp 180 turns in the yard.

doing a circle also helps keep the cut grass from looking like a line of trash on the yard. due to when ya look at it. it is harder to get a good solid line of grass due to it is all spiraling around. and less noticeable you didn't drive straight.

that and long spirals while can be a little boring. can be less stressful on your shoulders / arms since ya not constantly yanking the steering wheel to do 180 degree turns all the time.

ya in early spring. the yard looks a little funky, because i forgot were the good center of the yard is. and i end up with some straight lines on a couple sides the yard but *shrugs*

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dirt moving.
a front bucket adds some good amount of weight. if you could get by with a box blade. or perhaps a 3pt scoop. that or make some stands that you can drive tractor up into. and take the front loader arms and bucket off with ease. and not require another tractor to put them back on. would make mowing much easier.

 

[RoyJackson]

Look for a used Kubota B7500, B7510 or B7610 or Deere 755 or 855. Those are, for the most part, hydrostatic transmissions.
The weight and power will fit your needs. I've seen a number of these smaller tractors on Craigslist over the last year (Pennsylvania). There's enough power to run a 60" finishing mower.

 

[LD1]

Since owing is your #1 priority, you want the highest power to weight ratio you can get in a tractor to do the least damage.

AND if you are currently using a 20HP ZTR mower with a (assuming here) a 5' deck, I think you are going to be dissapointed if you get a tractor that only has 20 HP at the PTO and plan on running a 5' mower. Because 20HP is 20HP. And if your current 20HP cant handle the 5' mower, just because you put that 20HP in a bigger frame doesnt mean it is going to handle it any better.

Which leads me to my next point. IF you are going to be getting a tractor, what kind of mower were you planning on gettting. A rotary cutter IE bushhog???? A rear finish mower??? Did you want a Mid mount mower??? Perhaps a flail mower???

The rotary mowers and flail mowers dont require as much HP But also leave a rougher cut. How tall are you letting the grass get before you cut it???

Personally, I'd be looking at either the B-series kubota, like a B3200 or B3030. They come in at about the 2000lb mark. But if you plan on using a rear mower and NOT a MMM, I'd also consider the Lxx00 series like my L3400. They are only 2600lbs, which sounds like a lot, but keep in mind that they also have bigger tires too. So it wont rut any worse than a 2000lb tractor with the smaller tires. And the added HP of the L3400 may be the ticket you are looking for.

Personally I run ags on mine. I dont have a well groomed 'golf course' type lawn. Just an average rural lawn. And the ags dont tear it up if it's dry. But If you get the turfs, plan on chains if you want to do any serious irt work or moving snow in the winter.

 

[RoyJackson]

The rotary mowers and flail mowers dont require as much HP But also leave a rougher cut. How tall are you letting the grass get before you cut it???

Your post is great, but I think you're incorrect on the phrase I bolded (assuming you're comparing the rotary mower to a finishing mower).
If my assumption is correct, the rotary cutters, for a given width, do require more PTO power then a similarly sized finishing mower...

 

[Gittyup]

Roy and LD1 give good advice. Other models to consider:

JD4100, 4110, 4115, 2305, 2320, 770
bota 7800, 7610, 7510, bigger bx's
subcuts from New Holland, Massey Furgeson, Mahindra
TYM T273 or T293

I'd definitely go HST for mowing. And if you want to reduce mowing time, get enough HP to run a 72" finish mower (30+ HP).

You might also consider the articulationg machines, like Power Trac.

Find any of these with the right equipment, in good shape, within your budget and jump on it.

 

[Piston]

Also you can get high flotation tires to lessen the impact on the lawn.
I don't know if you'll be able to find a B or L series with what you want for your budget but you never know.
I might have missed it but where are you from?

Don't worry about asking a 'which tractor should I buy' question, I think almost all of us did the same thing, and maybe you can help someone down the road with they're tractor buying adventures.

Welcome to the forum.:thumbsup:

 

[LD1]

Your post is great, but I think you're incorrect on the phrase I bolded (assuming you're comparing the rotary mower to a finishing mower).
If my assumption is correct, the rotary cutters, for a given width, do require more PTO power then a similarly sized finishing mower...

Not in my experience.

On my particular machine, I can mow grass up to about 4-5" tall with the RFM in 4L. Any taller and I have to slow down.

BUT I can mow 2-3' high stuff with a rotary cutter in the same 4L range.

Now a rotary cutter is NOT ideal for a well groomed lawn. BUT if he is trying to cut 6-7" stuff that is right on the borderline between a rotary cutter and RFM, the rotary cutter can knock it down at a faster pace.

But since the rotary cutter just cuts, and doesnt try to mulch it into little clippings, it require less power, but also doesnt leave as good of a look.

As mentioed, I have a 5' RFM AND 5' RC. Sometimes I am too laze to change and mow some of the taller grassey meadows in my woods with the RFM. It is much slower than the RC and that is only ~10" tall stuff. Not to mention, if the grass is right on that borderline like I mentioned, it is going to tax the RFM much more than a RC.

 

[fredhargis]

I think your criteria is right on, and I also think searching for a specific used tractor may take a lot of time to find one. Check the ones you find that are of interest, then come back and ask questions about that specific model. That's not to discount all the great advice the others have (and will continue) to provide. But my experience has been that used tractors that show up for sale exactly as you want will be fairly rare. On other thing, check tractorhouse.com for models of interest....you might find some alternatives there, and most of them can be shipped to you for a somewhat reasonable fee. If nothing else it provides a check on pricing.

 

[TripleR]

There are a LOT of tractors that will work for your needs from a BX up. We use a BX2660 for pretty much what you are doing only we use a 5' MMM. The B and even the L will work in addition to myriad models from JD, Kioti, MF etc.

Just as with buying a new tractor, check them out to make sure one fits you; lots to choose from, but as mentioned, you may not be able to get the exact model you want unless you are willing to wait a pretty long time.

 

[DAY]

A three acre front lawn is big. Do you enjoy spending a couple of hours a week mowing it? Given the choice, would you even want a 3A lawn? If the answers are yes, then the advice from the experienced voices above are excellent.

Here in PA, 3 acres is a nice sized hayfield, and alfalfa sells for 3-4 bucks a bale. Would the kids like a horse? And a stable/barn to keep it in? Ponds are fun for fishin' 'n' swimmin'.
- sorry about opening this can of worms. . .

 

[Perplexed]

Wow, lots of good advice given in less than 24 hours - thanks, folks! I had been wondering about the Kubota "B" series, the smaller Mahindra's such as the 2516, and the LS J2030H. Granted, those are new tractors, but they seem to be the kind of tractor I'd be looking for, perhaps a bit on the light side for earth and snow moving.

I'll be going around in Tulsa, OK to see what's available and get a feel for sitting and driving the various tractors. But honestly, I can't imagine hating anything - I'm pretty flexible when it comes to machinery, though being almost 6' tall leaves me wanting something with a bit of leg room. And of course, a reliable machine would be most appreciated

To answer a few questions posted above, I keep the lawn mowed to about 2 1/2" - 3", and I currently use a 52" MMM. Now that MMM layout I do not like because of all the dust and dirt kicked up right around me. My dad used to have a small JD tractor (don't remember which model, but I wish he'd kept it!) with a rear finish mower, and I liked that setup so I'd want the same on my tractor. I do want a nice-looking lawn since the effect of a long stretch of neatly-cut grass is quite impressive, IMHO. A 5' deck would be fine as long as I can mow the thick patches of grass w/o bogging down. If I understand correctly, a HST will rob the engine of power (more so than a geared transmission), so a tractor putting out 25 hp may only deliver around 20 hp to the PTO. Something I'd want to keep in mind. Oh, and the driveway is paved, so I don't need to worry about grading it. It's just a bit long for shoveling snow by hand

Anyone have anything good or bad to say about used Yanmar tractors? A local dealer gets those in all the time, refurbs them, and sells them at decent prices, but from what I've read, parts availability can be problematic along with a lack of tech support (i.e., shop manuals).

Also, someone mentioned a blade for snow removal. I've seen front-mounted and rear-mounted blades; what is the advantage of one over the other? I'd think front-mounted would allow you to move snow with the tires on already-cleared ground/pavement, but perhaps the rear-mount allows you to move more snow?

Anyway, I'll keep an eye on the local classifieds and see if anything along the lines of what you all have suggested, pops up. Much appreciated!

ETA: No kids at home, so I'm the one who does the mowing. I don't mind it, really - except for the bogging down and the dirt/dust being kicked up by the MMM. I'm not keen on keeping horses or livestock, though I may put in a pond someday. Oh - that's another reason for a FEL!

 

[TripleR]

A three acre front lawn is big. Do you enjoy spending a couple of hours a week mowing it? Given the choice, would you even want a 3A lawn? If the answers are yes, then the advice from the experienced voices above are excellent.

Here in PA, 3 acres is a nice sized hayfield, and alfalfa sells for 3-4 bucks a bale. Would the kids like a horse? And a stable/barn to keep it in? Ponds are fun for fishin' 'n' swimmin'.
- sorry about opening this can of worms. . .

Yeah, probably a regional thing. In addition to our 2+ acre yard, we mow pond levies and I mow three acres next to our house and four acres up in a meadow every two weeks with a L5030. The grand kids love all that room to run, ride and play.

The family who farms our land makes our yard look small as they have a very large family and have a full size baseball field with backstop, screens and all of the amenities.

 

[LD1]

Also, someone mentioned a blade for snow removal. I've seen front-mounted and rear-mounted blades; what is the advantage of one over the other? I'd think front-mounted would allow you to move snow with the tires on already-cleared ground/pavement, but perhaps the rear-mount allows you to move more snow?

Front blades are usually taller, and designed ONLY for snow. So with them being taller, you can usually move more snow faster, and it is easier on your neck than a rear blade.

But if they are designed like truck plows (IE no downforce), getting clise to garage doors and things is difficult to backdrag and get a good clean scrape.

A backblade is designed for dirt as well. So if you are doing loader work, digging, leveling, backfilling, etc. the rear blade is mighty handy.

Also, a front blade is a lot more $$$, and you have to take the loader off, so you can pile snow as high. There is also more visibility with the rear blade because you dont have to look over/around the hood/front axle. BUT it does put a little strain on the neck from constantly looking backwards.

Also, if you ever sell the tractor an get another one, the front blade will be specific to your model. A 3PH blade will work on ANY cat 1 tractor.

I think thats about all of the major differences. It basically boils down to how much do you want to spend. But you can pick up good used 3PH blade for ~$150. I'd go that route for now. And if you find that to not be adequite, then decide if it is worth the $$$ for a front blade. But either way, if you are getting a tractor and FEL, you are going to want a rear blade at some point or another.

 

[Perplexed]

Questions... what would be considered an "average" number of hours per year on a CUT? I'm looking at a Ford 1520 (not NH) 4x4, priced at $7500 with Hydrastat at a local dealer, that has 1,107 hours on it. It comes with a FEL made by Ford (# 706?), but at this time, I don't know what year it is. From my research on here, a 1520 with 18.5 hp at the PTO can handle a 5' brush hog in light to moderate undergrowth - how would that translate to a 5' finish mower on a Bermuda grass lawn?

Also, anything specific on the 1520 I should inspect in the way of potential trouble spots?

 

[bigbull338]

it should do just fine cutting your lawn.as for hours pre year this will be a guess,anywhere from 25 to 75hrs a yr depeding on how much it was used.an as high as 100hrs a yr.

 

[Perplexed]

Well, I spent part of the past several days looking at CUT's, both new and used, and the experience was definitely an eye-opener! I figured it'd be like looking for a new car; in some ways, it's much the same, but in other ways, it's a whole different ball of wax.

The ten or twelve used CUT's I looked at ranged from a 18-hp JD 670 (too small) to a 30-hp NH TC30 (a bit big). Condition ran from "Very nice" down to "Does that thing even RUN?" The closest thing I found to what I want was a 1994 Ford 1520 with FEL and 1107 hours for $7500, but this tractor looked like it'd been left out in a field for some time, as it had some surface rust here and there. The fittings looked weathered, the tires were dry and starting to crack, and the seals on the driveshaft were loose. I liked the all-metal feel of this tractor, but it was a tad on the large side, and it would have required more work than I'd probably be comfortable with for a first tractor. I don't know what could be wrong with it, and my wallet doesn't care to find out!

On the other end of the spectrum, I stopped at a LS dealer to look at their J2020H and J2030H tractors. The dealer is a mom-and-pop operation and has been around a LONG time, and the buildings look it - old, weather-beaten concrete block structures with faded lettering, little shoots of vegetation growing up through cracks in the pavement, etc. All they needed was a mean junkyard dog to complete the picture, but instead they had a tiny Yorkie terrier which kept getting sand burrs in its little paws The fellow who helped me out was friendly and informative, and he took his time explaining the workings of the JH tractors and how they stacked up against the competition, including the Mahindras the business formerly dealt with. Apparently Mahindra is growing out of its britches and is now demanding more money for fewer features on their tractors? Anyway, this dealer got into LS tractors last year, and he said they were doing well. I have to admit that, for a plastic-bodied CUT, I really liked the J series. Interestingly, the weight without ballast is close between the two models - between 1560 and 1590 lbs. The power difference is 4 hp, though I see in the brochure the 2030 has a 80 CI engine, whereas the 2020 has a 69 CI engine. I'm guessing the torque difference is considerably higher (why don't the tractor manufacturers publish that data?)

Anyway, the dealer and I then went inside to discuss the prices. For the J2020 with FEL and a 5' Muratori towed finish mower, the quote was $14,614.11 with tax and delivery to my house. How is that price - good, bad, or laughable? This is in Tulsa, OK if that makes any difference. I didn't get a total price for the J2030, but the base price with FEL for that one was $1200 more than the J2020. I wonder if the bigger tractor would be worth the extra cost?

At this point, I put on my best car-dealership face, and asked what his best price would be.

"The price I gave you is the price you get."

Wow. I was surprised. Don't tractor dealerships operate like car dealerships, with a bit of bargaining leeway built into their prices?

After a bit more small talk, I left to visit the giant Kubota / NH dealership down the road. Shiny buildings, dozens and dozens of tractors ranging from the little garden tractors to giant combines. It took me a bit of doing to get a fellow to help me out, and he steered me to their "B" line of tractors (B2320, 2620, and 2920). The only one they had in stock was the biggest one, which he explained to me was slightly bigger than the 2320 that I figured would be the best comparison for the J2020. The fellow was nice enough, but I sensed he was a bit preoccupied and rushed, so I didn't stay long. I was running behind, anyway. His quote for the B2320 with FEL was $13,900 before taxes, and he said they could add a 5' Land Pride finish mower for $1800.

So already the Kubota was going to be $400 more than the more powerful LS J2030... huh. The Kubota did have a couple features I didn't see on the LS, including separate brakes for left and right side, but other than that, I didn't see anything to warrant the higher cost. Other than the brand recognition, I suppose.

That's been the extent of my tractor-shopping experience so far. What do you folks think, especially about the LS brand and the quoted prices?

 

[bigbull338]

some small tractor dealerships give you their low dollar right off,because they just want to sale at a fair price.

 

[boggen]

double check transmissions types.

personally prefer left and right brake peddles. 4x4 or MFWD is always nice to have. but being able to lock up either left back or right back tire. and keep the other tire spinning. has came in handy for me. granted i live on the farm. with pasture, and lake. and getting into some tight situations. were only way to go is to make a sharp turn.

also left and right brake peddles. allows you to steer the tractor, vs trying to steer with the steering wheel. this comes in handy when you are trying to scoop something up with the front bucket and end up with the front wheels off the ground.

though my fav time of using left and right brake peddles. is when there is ice on the ground. and there is snow to be moved. it is fun being able to hit one of the peddles. and turn the tractor in a nice sharp turn to push the snow just off of the drive way.

generally most left and right back brake peddles have a little piece of metal you can lock both brakes together to have them act like a car or truck brake peddle. only time i ever remember locking the peddles together was when i was on the road. in highest gear i could go. ((locking the peddles in this case gives you a little bit better control as you slow down to make turns, without jerking the front of the tractor around some))

===========
a 3pt hitch finishing mower. from any make or manufactor will work on your tractor. ((should correct that, within respect to the different class 1,2,3 3pt hitch classes))

if you find a better deal for a rear 3pt finishing mower, and a dealer is not dropping prices for the extra addon attachment. i would say go with another 3pt finishing mower that you might find cheaper or perhaps a little bit wider.

on a side note. you said ""5' Muratori towed finish mower"" to me a towed finish mower. is a mower that has an engine on the mower itself. and could be pulled behind a rtv 4 wheeler, a truck, or a car or a tractor.

3pt hitch finishing mower on other hand. would require to be attached to the back of the tractor and also hook up to the PTO shaft on back of the tractor. there are variations of finishing mowers. in how they connect. to the back of the tractor.