Preferred Style Of Tire Chains?

[jimainiac]

I'm inclined to agree with you, Gordon, but I thought I'd pass that on to see if others had heard of that practice. Compared to those beefy studded chains on the rear, the standard car/truck chains (no v bars) on the front are pretty puny. I can't imagine that the fronts would grip more than the rears. It just seems like a good idea to have a little bit of extra gripping power on the front to help out. Just leaves me without any chains for the truck!
And you're right, it's a challenge to work the brake pedals and the HST pedal at the same time. I don't think Kubota gave that enough thought...

 

[arrow]

The great thing about the Trygg chains in the "H" pattern is, besides all those ice studs, the chains form two continuous bands around the diameter of the tire. There is always chain on the ground for grip, and the ride is smooth. In their installation video they show that when the chains are properly adjusted you should be able to pull them away from the tread about a fist's worth. I got mine adjusted like that or just a tad tighter, and it's looking like I don't need tensioners.
I took a test drive in some deep snow and was having some trouble turning, so I borrowed the chains from my pickup for the front tires, four link ladders. I asked my Kubota dealer what he though about chains on all four tires, and he suggested just putting a chain on one front wheel in addition to the rears, and that would help keep the gears from binding up. Anybody ever tried that, or have an opinion?

Well if the tractor fronts work the same as a car's open differential that has 4 wheel drive ( which is mostly in reality 2 wheel drive) I suppose chaining the drive wheel will offer some additional grip. Backing up however might alter this if directional change effects drive wheel transfer. A cars Posi Traction works mostly on clutches within the unit that when one side slips, the other side grips. An open differential just stays slipping on one side unless the torque is so great that enough energy is applied to the other tire as well. I've seen very powerful cars that have an open diff (no posi) cause both sides to burn out although the other side is not as long. A locking differential is when equal force is applied to both sides. I'm thinking most 4wd tractors have open diffs on their fronts.

 

[arrow]

The great thing about the Trygg chains in the "H" pattern is, besides all those ice studs, the chains form two continuous bands around the diameter of the tire. There is always chain on the ground for grip, and the ride is smooth. In their installation video they show that when the chains are properly adjusted you should be able to pull them away from the tread about a fist's worth. I got mine adjusted like that or just a tad tighter, and it's looking like I don't need tensioners.
I took a test drive in some deep snow and was having some trouble turning, so I borrowed the chains from my pickup for the front tires, four link ladders. I asked my Kubota dealer what he though about chains on all four tires, and he suggested just putting a chain on one front wheel in addition to the rears, and that would help keep the gears from binding up. Anybody ever tried that, or have an opinion?

The Norwegian type chains are the best all around chain in my opinion. Having said that and what is good about this discussion, is that one does not necessarily need to go that route dependent on what they are looking for traction wise. My 4 ladder chains suffice for me as I am mostly logging or plowing snow. They aid traction in icy ,snow covered ground. I have nothing "critical" such as hills or fall offs that necessitate constant grip on ice such as the Trygg type chains provide. The front chain comes in handy (2 link ladder) when coming onto an ice encrusted ground formation of snow covered rock. What is aiding traction most in frozen or snow covered ground however is the thousand pound tree stem hanging off the 3 point.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

No offense taken. I don't mind a good discussion with opposing view points delivered as gentlemen; that's how people learn. Now I'm going to oppose you. Here are pictures of same tractor with new tires with not 3 hrs on them. The fronts do not have 10 hrs on them. My chains are loose and are able to sort of seek their own level. They are what strike the earth first and whether they are here or there, loose or tight, they will always provide more traction. I cannot agree on your theory about chains needing to be tight to provide optimum traction because chains will only go so far before they dig in even if they are loose. What helped you on ice was the v-bars. If you cannot run your chains a little loose for clearance problems, then you may run into the trouble you are describing but it is not a standard,be all axiom for chains to always attempt to state: "these chains are no good because they ride between the lugs" in my experience. If I believed that, I would not have bought the simplest chains which have aided my traction immensely and have cost under $300. So now we are at a point of disagreement based on our own experiences. What might be the differential as to why this happens sometimes and not all the time? My fronts are small and in comparison ratio, so is the chain yet the same thing is happening with them as what's going on with the rears so I am not certain tire size and lug depth are what provides this differential. I'm thinking tight fitment is the culprit. Lug angle may be another but my old tires were a lesser angle and the chain still came to rest on top of lugs at traction point. It seems no matter what the tire there appears to always be the ability of chain traction even with simple ladder chain. As a matter of fact, ladder chain may be the better solution than duo grips.

Arrow, I love a good discussion and have been known to be hard headed and stubborn but I always learn something the easy or hard way. I wasn't trying to say that your tires were old. But the depth of your lugs is MUCH less than the depth of mine. I dont think I gave you enough credit with the loose chains though. The side chains appear to be about 6 inches out of synch and cause the cross chains to ride nicely on the lugs.

And to quote tirechains.com "PLEASE NOTE: To insure maximum life and performance of your tire chains,
tire chains must be installed as tight as possible. Tensioners are recommended." tirechains

Directly from their webpage.

As for the "If you cannot run your chains a little loose for clearance problems, then you may run into the trouble you are describing but it is not a standard,be all axiom for chains to always attempt to state: "these chains are no good because they ride between the lugs" in my experience." UNLESS the chain is taller than the thickness of the tire lugs. IF the chain is shorter than the lug, it doesn't help a lick since the chain is completly hidden by the lug. Your chains are obviously taller than your lugs and the out of time per say and ride nicely on the lugs. I am all about getting by for cheaper, but I dont think it would work in my instance. IF there is no pressure from the lug onto the chain, it doesn't have any grip.

I think that covers anything, let me know what I missed! Getting any snow out your way? I just ordered 8 duo v-bar patterns to tighten up the pattern on my fronts and the chain tool to boot. It was actually a funny conversation with the guy when I ordered them. He said I dont think you can do that. And when I asked him why not. HE paused for a second and said WEll i dont see any reason why not, but I dont think the company would do that. Which I dont understand why they wouldn't take a custom order but that complicates things quite a bit. Boy thats long winded!

 

[jimainiac]

Here are a couple of pictures of my chain setup. This shows why I don't think the fronts are in danger of having more traction than the rears. Turns out you couldn't put anything larger on the fronts anyway, because when the wheels are turned all the way you could just about measure the clearance to the loader arm supports with a feeler gauge. The front chains are borrowed from my pickup, which has 245-75x16 tires, so they don't come very far down the sidewalls here, but with the bungees keeping them tight I think they'll be all right. I'm happy with this combination so far.

 

[Gordon Gould]

Here are a couple of pictures of my chain setup. This shows why I don't think the fronts are in danger of having more traction than the rears. Turns out you couldn't put anything larger on the fronts anyway, because when the wheels are turned all the way you could just about measure the clearance to the loader arm supports with a feeler gauge. The front chains are borrowed from my pickup, which has 245-75x16 tires, so they don't come very far down the sidewalls here, but with the bungees keeping them tight I think they'll be all right. I'm happy with this combination so far.

I think you are right. Is that enough to help with your steering in snow ?? If it is I would be inclined to do the same thing.

Nice rear chains - heavier than Telefsdal's.

 

[jimainiac]

Gordon, since I put the fronts on we had a mild stretch with rain that settled the snow here, but I think that if I get wallowing around in deep snow I'll probably still have to use the independent brakes for tight turns. I really wanted to have them on there to help cope with glare ice situations on an incline, to have something up front to grip as opposed to nothing.
The Trygg website shows that their studded chains come in several different sizes of chain, and I think the ones I got would be considered about medium, 9.5MM. Labonvilles had chains in my size, but I think what they carry is a heavier chain. For $1700 I would think so! That was exactly double what I paid for these, and that hurt plenty. That would be way overkill for me. I really like these. As I mentioned before, one of the neat things about these "Flexi" chains is the ability to shorten the sidechains by way of three removable links evenly spaced around the diameter of the tire, front and back. That lets you snug up the chains without having to use tensioners to pull the slack out of the sidechains.

 

[kco]

Arrow, I love a good discussion and have been known to be hard headed and stubborn but I always learn something the easy or hard way. I wasn't trying to say that your tires were old. But the depth of your lugs is MUCH less than the depth of mine. I dont think I gave you enough credit with the loose chains though. The side chains appear to be about 6 inches out of synch and cause the cross chains to ride nicely on the lugs.

And to quote tirechains.com "PLEASE NOTE: To insure maximum life and performance of your tire chains,
tire chains must be installed as tight as possible. Tensioners are recommended." tirechains

Directly from their webpage.

As for the "If you cannot run your chains a little loose for clearance problems, then you may run into the trouble you are describing but it is not a standard,be all axiom for chains to always attempt to state: "these chains are no good because they ride between the lugs" in my experience." UNLESS the chain is taller than the thickness of the tire lugs. IF the chain is shorter than the lug, it doesn't help a lick since the chain is completly hidden by the lug. Your chains are obviously taller than your lugs and the out of time per say and ride nicely on the lugs. I am all about getting by for cheaper, but I dont think it would work in my instance. IF there is no pressure from the lug onto the chain, it doesn't have any grip.

I think that covers anything, let me know what I missed! Getting any snow out your way? I just ordered 8 duo v-bar patterns to tighten up the pattern on my fronts and the chain tool to boot. It was actually a funny conversation with the guy when I ordered them. He said I dont think you can do that. And when I asked him why not. HE paused for a second and said WEll i dont see any reason why not, but I dont think the company would do that. Which I dont understand why they wouldn't take a custom order but that complicates things quite a bit. Boy thats long winded!

Doug, as mentioned in the other thread in which we posted, my supplier's reaction to the proposed changes was the opposite--he thinks it's a great idea.

 

[arrow]

Arrow, I love a good discussion and have been known to be hard headed and stubborn but I always learn something the easy or hard way. I wasn't trying to say that your tires were old. But the depth of your lugs is MUCH less than the depth of mine. I dont think I gave you enough credit with the loose chains though. The side chains appear to be about 6 inches out of synch and cause the cross chains to ride nicely on the lugs.

And to quote tirechains.com "PLEASE NOTE: To insure maximum life and performance of your tire chains,
tire chains must be installed as tight as possible. Tensioners are recommended." tirechains

Directly from their webpage.

As for the "If you cannot run your chains a little loose for clearance problems, then you may run into the trouble you are describing but it is not a standard,be all axiom for chains to always attempt to state: "these chains are no good because they ride between the lugs" in my experience." UNLESS the chain is taller than the thickness of the tire lugs. IF the chain is shorter than the lug, it doesn't help a lick since the chain is completly hidden by the lug. Your chains are obviously taller than your lugs and the out of time per say and ride nicely on the lugs. I am all about getting by for cheaper, but I dont think it would work in my instance. IF there is no pressure from the lug onto the chain, it doesn't have any grip.

I think that covers anything, let me know what I missed! Getting any snow out your way? I just ordered 8 duo v-bar patterns to tighten up the pattern on my fronts and the chain tool to boot. It was actually a funny conversation with the guy when I ordered them. He said I dont think you can do that. And when I asked him why not. HE paused for a second and said WEll i dont see any reason why not, but I dont think the company would do that. Which I dont understand why they wouldn't take a custom order but that complicates things quite a bit. Boy thats long winded!

I think RN that the aspect of tight chain recommendation from a place that sells them for all kinds of vehicles has more to do with high speed rotation. You would not want a loose chain on a truck tire or automobile so as to not throw the chain and so they come out with a generalized edict that might not fit every application. I do not use tensioners and they stay on just fine. The tractor is moving too slowly for looseness to be an issue. No matter which way I position the links, my lugs on the new tires are always taller than the chain and yet, they work fine. If your rears are making 3/8 chain minuscule, perhaps we need to rethink that on your type of tire size, chains to be effective without going into all kinds of chain configurations, must be made of larger link like more of what you'd find on a log skidder. I wonder if you'd have this problem with 2 link ladder chain made out of 1/2" link. Your tires are just too large to come out of this cheaply. This past summer I drove my bils 5083 to cut grass while in Kentucky. The rears are huge and this was a 2wd machine.

This season so far we've gotten one 12" snow fall and a couple 3 or 4 inchers. Its all gone now as last week we had 2 days of almost 60 degree weather.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

Doug, as mentioned in the other thread in which we posted, my supplier's reaction to the proposed changes was the opposite--he thinks it's a great idea.

I talked to an older gentleman on the phone and he did not really seem to keen on the idea. He also screwed up the order. I got 8 pairs of non v-bar duo grips instead of the v-bars. I should have listened to him though when he offered to include the tractor chain tool in the order and after messing around with some 5/16 dually chains I promptly went online and ordered them!

I think RN that the aspect of tight chain recommendation from a place that sells them for all kinds of vehicles has more to do with high speed rotation. You would not want a loose chain on a truck tire or automobile so as to not throw the chain and so they come out with a generalized edict that might not fit every application. I do not use tensioners and they stay on just fine. The tractor is moving too slowly for looseness to be an issue. No matter which way I position the links, my lugs on the new tires are always taller than the chain and yet, they work fine. If your rears are making 3/8 chain minuscule, perhaps we need to rethink that on your type of tire size, chains to be effective without going into all kinds of chain configurations, must be made of larger link like more of what you'd find on a log skidder. I wonder if you'd have this problem with 2 link ladder chain made out of 1/2" link. Your tires are just too large to come out of this cheaply. This past summer I drove my bils 5083 to cut grass while in Kentucky. The rears are huge and this was a 2wd machine.

This season so far we've gotten one 12" snow fall and a couple 3 or 4 inchers. Its all gone now as last week we had 2 days of almost 60 degree weather.

I would agree with you that they are probably making a blanket statement to cover their rears. And a tractor shouldn't ever need to be moving more than a couple mph but some machines are capable of running 25 mph, which is what they say the max speed for their chains are. I'd be very curious to see what 1/2" chains would look like on my machine, but I think im going to have to settle for the 3/8" for now. I would be more than willing to try some 2 link ladder bars especially with v-bars, I think that would be just about all the height I would need even if they were laying perfectly between the treads which would almost never completely happen. I have often wondered what those great big ring chains would ride like in a tractor. Its pretty soft out in the woods, I think a hard packed driveway might just about jar my teeth outta my skull with them though. My mind tends to wander alot farther than my wallet can follow!

Good discussion all.