Publishing Loader Capacity Numbers That Far Exceed The Capacity Of The Axles

[Sid Post]

It seems ironic to me, that one can often buy working, used industrial equipment for less than these new, tiny machines. Its not hard to find a decent D6, or payloader for 15k. Mind you, it won't be nearly as comfortable as the new machine.

Getting it serviced though when it breaks down is a total crapshoot. If you can't fix it yourself, getting someone who can may not be possible or, the cost could be astronomical.

 

[LD1]

It seems ironic to me, that one can often buy working, used industrial equipment for less than these new, tiny machines. Its not hard to find a decent D6, or payloader for 15k. Mind you, it won't be nearly as comfortable as the new machine.

Hauling it, servicing it, or working on your own yard/property all become problematic with a 50,000 lb machine

 

[Sid Post]

Hauling it, servicing it, or working on your own yard/property all become problematic with a 50,000 lb machine

Even a 10K# tractor is pretty hard on your yard and can really muddy up a pasture with ruts as well.

 

[finn1]

Lets not confuse sprung weight versus unsprung weight. There is a lot of info on the internet on this.

My tractor doesn’t have springs!

 

[Skypilota72]

I'm not sure common sense is involved at all, when trying to guess how well or how poorly some tractor manufacturer in India did or did not design their front axle.

By the way, the Max series is built in Japan, along with it's motor. Still, the info is either not available or well hidden.

 

[nova3930]

Hauling it, servicing it, or working on your own yard/property all become problematic with a 50,000 lb machine

A 10000 pound anything is a PITA to deal with. I had an old Cat V60B forklift that clocked in at just over 10k and when it went down, you better hope it wasn't in your way cuz it wasn't moving with any other reasonably available equipment. Wife was ready to skin me because the steering locked up right in front of the garage. Took 3 months to get it all fixed and she had to park in the driveway the whole time....

 

[nova3930]

Yes, they are neat. The common name is either "Shuttle Shift" for F/R, and "Powershif" for ranges and gears within ranges. Lots of tractors had both....some still do, and it's still an under-appreciated sweet spot price-wise even on brand new compact tractors. Most are fingertip operation. They aren't quite as smooth as HST, for loader work, but larger tractors tend to use shuttle because they are efficient and durable.

Some of the early versions required clutching for gears and ranges, but used clutchless electrically triggered hydraulic actuators for shuttling between forward and reverse..... whew, what a sentence....

Anyway, early versions back in the 1960s and 70s by Ford and JD were iffy and had some problems. The first powershift I personally looked at was the Yanmar clutchless "powershift" that they went to in the early 1980s on everything over 16 hp. I saw it as a demo at a dealer show. I almost bought that tractor....

How those work is that the transmission gears are locked in by hydraulic clutch pack right next to each gear on the transmission shaft. The trigger is an electric shifter that sticks out the side of the steering wheel. smooth and darn near trouble free. Even today you don't hear much problems with those old powershifts.

enjoy, rScotty

The 2420 I just got rid of had the powershift and it was my favorite thing about the tractor. Fantastic being able to change speed while mowing without clutching. If that tractor was bigger I wouldn't have gotten rid of it.

 

[dodge man]

So, the 1025r bucket holds 6 CF of material, meaning the max weight of material lifted would then be:

Gravel = 750 Lbs Dry
Sand = 600 Lbs Wet
Dirt = 480 Lbs Dry

I have the same bucket size on my Mahindra Max-24, and tractor+ Loader weight is 2300 lbs. My loader is capable of lifting 900 lbs, though I would never stress that type of load. How much counter weight would you suggest at 600 lbs?

I’m not sure exactly how much weight I have in my ballast box, probably in the 500 to 600 pound range. I think my manual says 700 pounds. I also have loaded tires but that isn’t really counter balance.

 

[tacticalturnip]

A 10000 pound anything is a PITA to deal with. I had an old Cat V60B forklift that clocked in at just over 10k and when it went down, you better hope it wasn't in your way cuz it wasn't moving with any other reasonably available equipment. Wife was ready to skin me because the steering locked up right in front of the garage. Took 3 months to get it all fixed and she had to park in the driveway the whole time....

When mother isn't happy, no one is happy...

 

[Vigo327]

Some of the shortest posts in this thread have been the ones i most agreed with, so i might as well give up right now because i cant seem to make a short post.

MOVING ON... lol I think the comment about breaking 'the axle' vs breaking the 4wd system that lives IN the axle, was especially relevant. Transferring a bunch of torque across a tiny bevel gear drive is not only a bad idea, it adds its own spreading forces to the housings which could take an axle that would have lived in 2wd, over the breaking point simply by being under power. Once something lets go in a gear drive, it's common to result in split housings/cases because the gear drive will try to eat the chunks and push apart until a single broken tooth results in an entire broken housing full of carnage.

 

[LARGEONE]

I always hear arguments about placing ballast in the back to reduce stress on the front axle. However, I just can't wrap my head around how this can be helpful without MASSIVE amounts of weight? If you put any more weight on the tractor, even off the back, and the back end is still light (ie wanting to lift when the FEL is lifted), then you have only put MORE WEIGHT ON THE FRONT AXLE. Correct? So, if you are going to rely on ballast, then you'll need to do the math to figure out just how much to offset the front and keep the back wheels planted. The only way to actually lighten the front load is to completely offset, and turn the rear axle into the pivot point. At least that's what my simple brain tells me.

 

[dodge man]

Largeone, you are correct. Say the rear tires come slightly off the ground, then the entire weight of everything is on the front axle. If you use enough ballast though, you are taking weight off the front axle.

I can tell when I have my ballast box on. If I have a bucket full and drive the tractor, it rocks back and forth, mainly wanting to rock forward and putting more weight on the front axle. With the ballast box on it doesn’t do this.

 

[dodge man]

A picture of my ballast box, you can see how this counter acts weight out front.

 

[LARGEONE]

I'll have to do some testing...my Mahindra 4540 is a heavy tractor and is capable of lifting heavy loads with the FEL. But, quite a few people have busted their front axles doing just this. I think I would need well over 600 lbs cantilevered off the back to allow the rated FEL lift? I'm gonna pull out my statics book from college...Haha!

 

[LD1]

I'll have to do some testing...my Mahindra 4540 is a heavy tractor and is capable of lifting heavy loads with the FEL. But, quite a few people have busted their front axles doing just this. I think I would need well over 600 lbs cantilevered off the back to allow the rated FEL lift? I'm gonna pull out my statics book from college...Haha!

That's a 5100 lb tractor with a loader capable of 3000 lbs.

I can assure you 600# ballast isn't even close to enough. Unless you hang it on a boom pole about 12' back.

600# for ballast is about right for the real small compact tractors that only weigh 1800# and can only lift 800-900#.

For your tractor.....2000# or so wouldn't hurt

 

[Sid Post]

A lot of posts here and the people behind them are getting wrapped around the axle.

This is really a physics problem that isn't that hard to understand for most people with a good high school physics class in their scholastic background.

Add to this the fact that most front axles on tractors ARE NOT DESIGNED to support the full weight of a tractor and any load on it like a loader bucket full of dirt or a ballast box on the 3-pt.

Your tractor's center of gravity matters a lot when you are using a loader. You also need to consider the total overall tractor weight as well as part of the tractor stability. A 3,000lb tractor lifting 1,000lbs with a loader is a lot different than a tractor weighing 6,000lbs lifting the same load.

Just because your tractor company puts a 2,500lb rated loader on your tractor DOES NOT MEAN IT IS SAFE TO LIFT THAT MUCH WEIGHT! And this doesn't even touch the ground the tractor is on; whether it is flat and level or whether it is soft or firm and whether your tires are rated for the load as well.

 

[WinterDeere]

That's a 5100 lb tractor with a loader capable of 3000 lbs.

I can assure you 600# ballast isn't even close to enough. Unless you hang it on a boom pole about 12' back.

600# for ballast is about right for the real small compact tractors that only weigh 1800# and can only lift 800-900#.

For your tractor.....2000# or so wouldn't hurt

Exactly. My Deere 3303R is lighter than that, and I'm putting 1400 lb. out on the ballast box when doing any serious loader work, in addition to my loaded rear tires. 600 lb. is a joke, on a tractor that size.

 

[WinterDeere]

Just because your tractor company puts a 2,500lb rated loader on your tractor DOES NOT MEAN IT IS SAFE TO LIFT THAT MUCH WEIGHT!

Not to pick nits, but given the litigious society in which we live... yes, it does.

Tractor manufacturers are unlikely to specify a loader for a tractor which exceeds its safe operational parameters. Antiques, for sure, but not today.

 

[Sid Post]

Not to pick nits, but given the litigious society in which we live... yes, it does.

Tractor manufacturers are unlikely to specify a loader for a tractor which exceeds its safe operational parameters. Antiques, for sure, but not today.

I humbly submit my LA764 (764Kg of lift) loader on my Kubota L-4600 is a combination that is NOT SAFE in my pasture with anything close to its published maximum lift capacity.

The tractor is relatively tall and narrow for its size and it lacks tractor weight in the rear. The front end is also relatively light for that loader lift capacity too!

 

[WinterDeere]

I humbly submit my LA764 (764Kg of lift) loader on my Kubota L-4600 is a combination that is NOT SAFE in my pasture with anything close to its published maximum lift capacity.

The tractor is relatively tall and narrow for its size and it lacks tractor weight in the rear. The front end is also relatively light for that loader lift capacity too!

Good example. But does the tractor not come with a manual stating a specific ballasting plan for this loader, which includes a ballast box + loaded rear tires + reversing the mounting of those rear wheels for better stability?