radial tires and liquid ballast

[ovrszd]

And you can't do anything with a moderate leak. I don't think Ive ever seen a small leak in a tractor tire, unless the valve stem needs tightened. I have a service truck and mainly do mechanic type work, but a lot of tires come along with it. I have fixed some flats in my life.

I use my tractors for utility work. I've probably plugged a dozen small leaks in the last ten years. Just plugged a front tire on the [AFFILIATE=1, nofollow=true, newwindow=true, title="Kubota"]Kubota[/AFFILIATE] a couple weeks ago. A tube would have required disassembly.

 

[ovrszd]

I've seen several small leaks in tractor tires over the years. A few we have let go for years just airing the tire up once or twice a week.
Leaks that were hard to find on the mounted tire.

The front tire leak I talked about had been going on for about a year. Got aggravated enough to address it after the tractor setting in the machine shed for a month in cold weather. I skidded it along on the FEL bucket to the shop for repair and air.

 

[Vigo327]

I think just about everything has been covered (that it's mostly a non-issue at low speeds) but one thing about having a smaller 'air pocket' due to tire fill is that it also affects the pressure rise, or 'rate of gain', when you hit things. Basically, if the whole tire is full of air and you bump into something hard the pressure might spike from 20 to 25, just as an example. If you fill most of the tire and have a smaller air pocket, that same impact might spike pressure from 20 to 50, making the tire feel a lot stiffer. Air acts like a 'progressive rate spring' and the smaller the air volume, the quicker the progression. I dont think it's a factor for most people but technically speaking if you are buying radials partially for ride quality, then yes, filling it 75% with noncompressible liquid leaving only 25% air is going to make the tire feel stiffer, giving away some indeterminate amount of the ride quality gain.

 

[ruffdog]

"Liquid ballast reduces performance by inhibiting the sidewall’s deflection in a radial tire."

To Ballast or Not – What to Tell Your Ag Tire Customers - Tire Review Magazine

 

[Hay Dude]

If you road and haul you will see and feel a considerable difference between bolt on iron and liquid fill.
On many of the roads we haul wagons on, liquid fill will cost at least a gear on the hills.
Also a liquid filled tire has more tendency to start hopping at speed.

^^ This.
Whenever I road haul with baler, I noticed poor ride from filled tires. I emptied them and installed wheel weights. Much better ride.

 

[ovrszd]

No doubt that cast weights are better. If you can afford them.

In the case of the OP, he's weighting a small tractor that probably has a high gear speed of 10mph.

I see no way, assessing his needs, that he should spend $1.00 per pound for weight when he can spend .20 cents per pound.

 

[mo1]

So ya ain't hunting all over the country to replace a rusty rim. I have seen 8n tractors with original good rims. Other old tractors too. We have six tractors, logging equipment, skid steers, all have tubes.

That was true back in the days when calcium chloride in water was what tires were filled with. Most of what is used today is methanol and water and a tube is generally only used if the tire requires one.

And you can't do anything with a moderate leak. I don't think Ive ever seen a small leak in a tractor tire, unless the valve stem needs tightened. I have a service truck and mainly do mechanic type work, but a lot of tires come along with it. I have fixed some flats in my life.

I have seen a bunch of moderate and slow leaks, thorns will certainly do that.

 

[Hay Dude]

Fluid in tires immediately reduces your tractors reliability compared to cast rims or cast weights.
Immediately, you have to be more careful. The last thing you want to do is make your tractor into a “china doll”.
Just spend the money and get proper cast weights. Heck, I’d run a 3 point weight box before fluid, but then you can’t run rear mount implements.

 

[ovrszd]

That was true back in the days when calcium chloride in water was what tires were filled with. Most of what is used today is methanol and water and a tube is generally only used if the tire requires one.



I have seen a bunch of moderate and slow leaks, thorns will certainly do that.

Reminds me, as a kid, Dad's tractor tires, especially the front ones, would get so full of hedge thorns that you couldn't keep air in them. I distinctly remember Dad cussing Hedge trees for that reason. He always declared War on any that were growing wildly in the pastures, etc. Only ones he let survive were in fencerows. Great source for hedge posts.

Problem with hedge, and honey locust is when you remove the tree ten more sprout up from the roots. Those were the ones getting ran over and puncturing the tractor tires.

 

[ovrszd]

Fluid in tires immediately reduces your tractors reliability compared to cast rims or cast weights.
Immediately, you have to be more careful. The last thing you want to do is make your tractor into a “china doll”.
Just spend the money and get proper cast weights. Heck, I’d run a 3 point weight box before fluid, but then you can’t run rear mount implements.

What is the "China Doll" syndrome you mentioned?

 

[MHarryE]

My Kubota M7 in going into its 7th season with Michelin radials is ballasted. My Kubota M5-111 going into its second season with Goodyear radials (built by Titan) is ballasted, both with Rim Guard. There is one problem. When the temperature is below zero (F) for several days in a row, the Rim Guard becomes quite viscous and will give you an incredible rough ride when roading until everything loosens up.

 

[jyoutz]

Fluid in tires immediately reduces your tractors reliability compared to cast rims or cast weights.
Immediately, you have to be more careful. The last thing you want to do is make your tractor into a “china doll”.
Just spend the money and get proper cast weights. Heck, I’d run a 3 point weight box before fluid, but then you can’t run rear mount implements.

Reduces your tractor’s reliability. Huh?

 

[4570Man]

Fluid in tires immediately reduces your tractors reliability compared to cast rims or cast weights.
Immediately, you have to be more careful. The last thing you want to do is make your tractor into a “china doll”.
Just spend the money and get proper cast weights. Heck, I’d run a 3 point weight box before fluid, but then you can’t run rear mount implements.

How does fluid reduce your reliability? A tire going flat is a damper on work getting done no matter what’s in it.

 

[Hay Dude]

How does fluid reduce your reliability? A tire going flat is a damper on work getting done no matter what’s in it.

If you have a flat and lose substantial fluid, like need a tube, you have to pump all the fluid out into a large container. Then pump it back into the tire to match the other tire. But if both tires have air, you just refill with air. If there’s a substantial loss of fluid, where will you get the container and 20 gallons of Rim guard or calcium out in the woods?
That’s lost reliability.
Lost time is the same as lost reliability.
Also, if it’s calcium in the tires and it’s a bad leak, the ground has to also be cleaned up or there will be a kill spot.
More lost time/reliability.

Both happened to me (twice) and it was a day until I was up and running again. Got burned good twice with hay needing to be baled or lose money.

Never again. It’s wheel weights for me. More reliable tractor.

 

[Hay Dude]

Reduces your tractor’s reliability. Huh?

Yep, reduces reliability.
If it takes less hours to repair a tire with air versus more hours to repair a tire with fluid, one can easily see that’s lost reliability.


2 times I had gashes with rim guard and it made a big mess. Then you have to find a tire repair company that can handle the stuff. If you are very lucky, you might get someone later the same day. Then the tire needs pumped out, removed, tubed, or if really bad-replaced, then refilled with same fluid.
Do you really think every tire company is just hovering around with a drum of rim guard or calcium chloride or whatever you run waiting to save your ass when it happens? It could take days. Costs a lot more money when it happens, too. Meanwhile your hay is getting browned in the sun, your rotary cutter isn’t cutting. That’s lost reliability.

If it’s just air with wheel weights, ANY large tire repair can remove tire, tube it and you’re working again.

The difference between you and me is you downplay this because it’s easy to see you’ve never been through it while relying on your tractor to make money.
I’ve been through gashed tires and lost 30-40 gallons of it everywhere and know what the repair time and lost reliability is to myself and my customers. It sucks and it doesn’t happen on government time, it happens on MY time.

 

[jyoutz]

Yep, reduces reliability.
If it takes less hours to repair a tire with air versus more hours to repair a tire with fluid, one can easily see that’s lost reliability.


2 times I had gashes with rim guard and it made a big mess. Then you have to find a tire repair company that can handle the stuff. If you are very lucky, you might get someone later the same day. Then the tire needs pumped out, removed, tubed, or if really bad-replaced, then refilled with same fluid.
Do you really think every tire company is just hovering around with a drum of rim guard or calcium chloride or whatever you run waiting to save your ass when it happens? It could take days. Costs a lot more money when it happens, too. Meanwhile your hay is getting browned in the sun, your rotary cutter isn’t cutting. That’s lost reliability.

If it’s just air with wheel weights, ANY large tire repair can remove tire, tube it and you’re working again.

The difference between you and me is you downplay this because it’s easy to see you’ve never been through it while relying on your tractor to make money.
I’ve been through gashed tires and lost 30-40 gallons of it everywhere and know what the repair time and lost reliability is to myself and my customers. It sucks and it doesn’t happen on government time, it happens on MY time.

There are lots of full time farmers that I know that use liquid ballast with few problems, so there’s that. We have one on this thread who has been going 7 years without an issue. Your mileage doesn’t seem to be as good.

 

[5030]

I don't and never have. I prefer cast centers myself. Any liquid ballast (CACL or Beet juice or washer fluid) will always entail extra work and expense to fix an issue. Mt tractors require a tire truck to come to the farm and additional expense as well.

 

[5030]

The difference between you and me is you downplay this because it’s easy to see you’ve never been through it while relying on your tractor to make money.
I’ve been through gashed tires and lost 30-40 gallons of it everywhere and know what the repair time and lost reliability is to myself and my customers. It sucks and it doesn’t happen on government time, it happens on MY time.

The other underlying issue is, with CACL especially, a leaking tire, leaking CACL will kill the hay or whatever plants it contacts for a long time. Nasty stuff and it rots rims too.

 

[ovrszd]

The other underlying issue is, with CACL especially, a leaking tire, leaking CACL will kill the hay or whatever plants it contacts for a long time. Nasty stuff and it rots rims too.

No one here uses CC. 3 tire businesses in the County with on farm service. They all carry fluid and can handle a fluid filled repair with minimal extra down time.

 

[Hay Dude]

It still takes longer to change a tire with fluid than a tire with air, so there’s that.
Longer downtime equals less reliability.

Plainly obvious You don’t have any idea what it’s like to lose a day with hay on the ground, either. And it could be just as bad if it’s a tractor trying to get property cut before rain coming.
Go ahead and try to talk yourself around it, but you can’t. It‘s called math. Show me a tire guy who can fix a tire filled with fluid faster than one with air and I’ll show you a government worker worth his pay & benefits.

One guy here that farms uses fluid and that’s your sampling proof? lol Well, bless your heart.

I know more farmers who use cast weight than fluid. Way more and I’m one and you’re not. So there’ s that.

And also: I never said it doesn’t work. I just said it reduces reliability. If you can’t understand that, you’re just ignorant.