Rural Electricity

[Roy]

One observation, now being rural for 12 years (totally citified before). When we first moved into our home, I noticed the lights would occasionally dim, electronic devices failed one after another, there were numerous power outages. Now, having researched years ago (saw a great article Popular Mechanics back about '89), I understand the blips (substation switching). I also immediately (after reading the article) armed my house with many surge protectors (at sensitive devices), including a whole-house surge. Often, quite often, I look at generators.

Question. Is there anything else I should consider (besides surges and lack of electricity). I haven't researched in so long that I may of missed recent studies.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Roy, I know exactly what you're talking about. It sounds like the brownouts you're experiencing will be the most likely to destroy motors and the surges are the ones that get the electronics. We live out a ways in the country and are usually the last to go back on line after a storm. Its a trade-off for the other finer aspects of country life. I too purchased a generator awhile back, just large enough to run a few lights, the tv, and the fridge.

 

[Bird]

That's so common for us that I bought a Tripp Lite Internet Office UPS for this computer. The battery backup is only good for a few minutes, but the software will do an orderly shut down instead of the power just going off and on to the computer. Usually our power is back on in a few minutes, frequently just flickering problems, and once in the past 5 years it was off for 8 hours.

Bird

 

[TomG]

There's a fix for almost everything, but some of them get expensive, especially if there are big power requirements. Many things can go wrong with AC: over/undervoltages, sags & surges, transient impulses, dropouts, frequency variations & RF noise are the main problems. It's a complicated subject, and I'll avoid my tendency to post a book. However, the main fixes are line filters, line conditioners and voltage regulators.

Many of the fixes are pretty expensive for general use, and a professional diagnosis of power problems should be taken before throwing money at an expensive solution. On the other hand, power utility companies often keep statistics on power problems, and a utility customer service rep might be able to tell you what you're dealing with.

Some things to think about are: Cheap surge protectors don't do much. They clamp high voltages such as lightening strikes and that's about it. Some of them aren't fast enough to stop short transients. Large electronics distributors usually have more expensive surge protectors that also contain line filters. Line filters stop various AC noise components and RF interference.

Surge protectors work by shunting AC components to ground. To work, the AC grounding system has to be good, and many rural residential grounds aren't great. Grounding rods or plates in sandy soil aren't very effective, and grounding rods don't last indefinitely anyway. Drilled well casings can be better grounds but may not be code approved for the primary service ground. Anyway, poor grounds can produce AC problems, and grounds can be checked or just replaced if they're old.

There is fix for over/undervoltages such as brown outs that may not break the bank. Mechanical autotransformer regulators can handle sizable power and are fairly inexpensive. They do require maintenance, however. Brown outs usually occur because utilities cut voltages to limit power consumption. An autotransformer can raise your voltage back up. Of course if everybody did this, then the power grids would just shut down. Mechanical autotransformers handle only long-term voltage fluctuations. Other types of problems take other solutions. Uninterruptible power supplies are best at most things, and can protect against various problems in addition to outages. Some inverter/battery types can protect a number of circuits and are expensive, but in the ball park. At least some parks.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Surge suppressors are a good thing to have, but keep in mind that surge protectors, usually utilizing varistors, can beak down over time from suppressing surges. One good surge can do it. To know if you suppressor is still working properly, check it with with a curve tracer (I'm sure everyone has one of these in their back pocket). Don't assume they work forever. The only indication you may get of a faulty suppressor is damaged equipment.

 

[Mike H]

Roy, I too have lived in the "country" for a dozen years. Every year we have several power outages (longer than a few minutes). Causes fall into 3 categories (for my situation). 1. Squirrel in the transformer. 2. Ice/Hail accumulation 3. Tornado/Wind/Thunderstorm. I've only been able to solve one of these (no more squirrels!). 4 years ago, my wife said the next time we lose power for more than 8 hrs, we're getting a generator. We got one and I'll offer that we waited 8 years too long. An ice storm 2 years ago left us without electricity for 5 days - life was much more pleasant with the generator.

 

[Roy]

Thanks for the info, guys. It sounds like there has been no inexpensive magic-bullet put on the market the last few years (it has been a while since I addressed the problem). Guess I can only continue what I'm doing, protecting sensitive electronic devices at the outlet, and continue looking at generators.

KCB mentioned a curve tracer. I regularly check the indicator lights on my suppressors to see if they are still working. Does everyone feel that these built-in indicators are sufficient and reliable, or is a separate test required?

I will add that the problem has improved over the years as the area has grown, as the power company has upgraded to provide for the increased demand. Guess that is a good-news bad news situation. As people move in, we get services that we never had before. Since moving here, they have brought in Cable TV (no thanks, not for me) and laid down natural gas lines last year. Talking about bring sewer and water in. Bad news: Traffic and property taxes go up. It becomes what you originally were trying to get away from. You no longer actually know everyone in the 'hood. Gotta take the good with the bad.

 

[TomG]

It's a little difficult to say. Surge suppressors have become a consumer good, and they vary widely in quality and what they do. There may be some organizations that certify suppressors for particular applications and a little looking on the web and computer magazines may turn up something. I have some confidence in the protection fault indicators on my suppressors since there was a lot of literature with them, and I know how much I paid. I'd have less confidence if they were hardware store types.

Like KCB says, nothing electronic lasts for ever, but if you don't have some test equipment, the testing probably would cost more than new suppressors.

I'll add a couple of notes about grounding and generators. When I upgraded our electric service, I bought a long line for the service ground. One ground rod is installed near a corner of the house, and the ground line runs around the house to the opposite corner to the second rod. That's a fairly standard technique for installing radio transmission equipment and serves to increase protection from lightening.

The idea is that in event of a strike, huge amounts of current flows from the surrounding ground to a low resistance point (tree, utility pole etc.) and then jumps to the cloud. If the strike is near a house, the current flow can result in lightening jumps inside a house. By supplying a high current, low resistance path around the house, the potentials within the house stay much the same, even though there are huge voltages all around. That's also a reason to make sure your inside copper plumbing, metal drains and well casings are bonded to your electric service panel. I think that's required almost everywhere.

Anyway, I thought it was worth buying the extra line since I already had to install two ground rods. I wouldn't have done it if I lived in a city. City houses tend to be almost surrounded by well-grounded utility equipment anyway. My Brother-in-law did see and feel plasma inside his house couple of summers ago. Maybe he wishes he had my type of grounding.

I installed a backup generator last summer. It's worth checking local codes before you start. Here, backup generators can be hooked into the house wiring only through a transfer switch that has 3 point main breakers. Three point breakers disconnect both hot as well as the neutral service lines. Most service panels have two point main breakers, and the utility neutral can be back fed by improperly connected generators.

My set up is a 60-amp sub-panel fed from an ordinary 60A breaker in my main 200A panel. Most of the house is wired on the 60A(240V) panel. The panel has one main for the utility feed from my main panel and another for the generator feed. Both mains can't be on at the same time. In a power outage, I start the generator, and then throw the transfer switch. Most of the house is then powered. My generator can't supply 60A(240V), but I can pick and choose which circuits are on.

Near as I can figure, that's the best type of code approved generator backup system. Back feeding a stove or dryer outlet works, but is dangerous and illegal here. Before checking the codes, I was looking at some equipment that wouldn't have been approved.

 

[Roy]

TomG; I think I got the lesson, correct hookup is not to be left to the hobbyist, like me. If I get a generator, I will make sure it's connected by someone who is experienced.

Question; What is the "plasma" that was mentioned?

 

[Jeff_In_NC]

Power out for only 8 hrs in 5 years!!!!!...thats great..lets see, we had about 2 days this past jan with the large snow storm...5 days in sept 99 after Hurricane Floyd...almost 3 weeks in 96 after Hurricane Fran. Needless to say I bought a generator a LONG LONG time ago...
I did see an ad in the local auto trader magazine a few weeks ago from an individual that had 2 PTO gensets for sale. One worked the other needed repair (rewinding?) for $1000 for both. Sounded like a great deal too bad no extra cash around.
jeff in nc

 

[TomG]

Plasma is gas where sufficient energy is present to ionize the atoms and cause them to become light emitting. (Basically, lightning). I said plasma rather than lightning, because what my Brother-in-law described wasn't quite like a lightning jump inside his house.

BTW, it's not that you can't do these wiring things, just that it takes some time to figure them out. Various wiring made simple books, plus what a good electrical supply clerk, electricians waiting at the counter, and your inspector tells you will get you by. Just takes some time and aggravation. I did the work because I have some background and because I couldn't get any contractor to come to the country when I needed work done.

 

[Bird]

It appears that even out in the country, some of you have building codes, electrical codes, etc. Of course, I still remember some of them from living in the big city, but out in the country where I live, for new service, the electric company gives you a meter base and a sheet of paper with instructions on mounting it on a 16' treated pole, minimum 6" diameter at the top, 4' in the ground, master breaker panel, wire size and type to use, 8' ground rod, etc. and they inspect that before hooking up the power. Then after it leaves that master panel, you're on your own to do as you please. And you wouldn't believe some the things the lunatic I bought my property from had done. Of course, I had to completely redo my electrical system, replacing everything below the meter.

Bird

 

[PBMAX]

Roy,These folks sure come through with good info...don't they?I thought I'd say one little thing.Tom mentioned impuleses...I'm not sure if take his meaning...But I think he is talking about spikes....At best for this on a budget make sure your surge arrestors (AKA plug/outlet stripps) say surge and spike protector....They will cost abit more but are tipically worth it...and provied abit better protection.Many of the better quality ones will even give you a life of the product estiment and number of tripps life.(trust at your own risk).The ones I bought are name brand (GE I think)and have a 5k warrenty...if they fail to protect for 5yrs..I would deffinetly recommend spick protectors for computers etc.. even on a generator...I work at a communication co (cellular) in the field and a fella was telling me about a generator having problems and spiked a transmitter...OUCH and they cost about as much as a nice size tractor 20k give or take a few..I hear this is pretty rare but still..... Lightining on the other hand is a creature all its own...It has been reperted in several studies I have read here and there and even on the discovery channnel,that lightining has been found to nock out electroniic equipment at a distance of 2 miles away from the strike zone.With just the static off the strike......Who knows.... They are always proving/disproving one theory or the other...UPS-s are alway a good way to go if you can as mentioned they will usually come with shut down soft ware (not always) and can save your tale if you are working on a computer...If you do get one for a computer make sure it will handle the pc and the monitor espcially if it doesn't come shut down soft ware.trust me it's hard to save and shut down if you can't see the screen..(IT can be done if you get luky!)
Hope I helped.

Lil' Paul

 

[TomG]

Bird, lucky you. Right now, I'm knee deep in inspectors and permits. We're demolishing a house we use for a hunt camp and replacing it with a construction trailer. Need several permits and inspectors to change the electrical service and a building permit to plant the trailer on blocks. To get a building permit, we need a health certificate. To get a health certificate, we needed a survey crew to find some missing property stakes. And, if there's any plumbing in the trailer, we need an 800-gallon septic system.

Oh well, guess the survey crew did figure out that the last utility pole is on our neighbour's property, so I can't trench to it for an underground service. Course, my neighbour says he doesn't care, but the utility says they would have to survey for a new easement. More permits. Guess that planting a new pole 20' from the last one is the least pain. Hey, that needs permits and inspectors too.

So, we said nuts to the plumbing, we'd use a biffy or composting toilet and draw our water. I mean, after all it's a hunt camp, even though it's only 10 miles from us. Oh well, then how about a raised 12'x6' leeching pit (for all our dish water and the long baths we take with our drawn water I guess)? Of course, we've got serious sand here. The ground itself is a real good leeching pit.

Well, the leeching pit it is. That's the price of a health certificate, which is the price of a building permit and so on. Welcome to rural life, Ontario style. Oh course, when we get everything planted, then the township bylaw folks may show up and say that were encroaching on our own front yard. A structure can't be ahead of the front of your house. Guess that means three sheds 200' away in some bush. Yep, we're got bylaw folks as well as inspectors.

I imagine these inspectors, consulting engineers and politicians who make the regulations all live in cities. Suppose they figure that people who live in the country don't have anything to do except file permits and entertain inspectors.

 

[TomG]

Paul: Yes, a spike is a kind of transient impulse, and it's good to have surge protectors designed to block spikes. It might be worth noting that surge protector/line filter approaches don't protect against all types of transients, but do protect against the most commonly encountered types.

There are several types of specialty transformers that are used where special AC problems exist. Touring sound companies and recording studios use them, but they are protecting a lot of $'s in equipment. You could blow quite a few computers and it would still cost less than these things.

 

[Roy]

Paul;
They sure do come through (yourself included)! Must say that when I 'stopped' by this forum last November, it was only because I was looking into compacts. Have stuck around because of the users. I myself am an engineer, I like to tinker with things, and am an information junkie. I don't like to be given answers, I prefer reasons behind the conclusion and raw data. Then I can analyze for myself, a see if it makes sense to me. This forum fits that bill. People here tend to take the time to explain and further define their conclusions, not simply state a conclusion as fact. Can't say enough about the users here!

 

[Bird]

We do have one thing that requires permits, inspections, etc. and that is whatever sewer system you use. Septic systems are the most common in the area, but people have lots of problems with them because this clay does not "perk" worth a hoot. The old septic system that was here when I bought the place was a disaster, so 3 years ago, I had an aerobic system installed with 2 sprinkler heads. I really like it, but even though I know how to maintain it myself, the law requires that I have a maintenance contract with a "licensed" installer, so that costs $200 a year for them to come out 4 times a year for 30 minutes to an hour to check everything, clean filters, etc.

Bird

 

[waters]

I mistyped a URL and came up with this site:
http://www.backyardpower.com/
It is not available until next year, but it seems to be an all in one solution. Who knows it may be worth waiting for.

I am not a electrial/fuel cell expert so I would appreciate other people's comments on this.

Thanks,

Mike

 

[Roy]

Would of been nice if they had included a cost estimate, guess we will have to wait and see.

 

[PBMAX]

Roy,If you are talking about the cost of fuel cells.I read an article a yr or so back,forget in what mag,about fuel cells.I believe it was a police dept. in NY city(Central Park) had some installed because it was cheaper than upgrading the old building they are in.The point I liked was that there were at the time 4 companies palning to sell them to the public by the yr 2001(will see).Estimated cost of aprox_4500 to 5k per cell installed.The average home is supposed to be able to reduce power bills by quite a bit on just 1 I think it was some were around 45%-50% effitiant +/- per cell.They said 2 would basically make a home self powered.They did say the cells need a primming source (natural gas,propane)there was a list of what could be expected.Souded realy cool.I can tell ya that if you get any ideas about disconecting from the power co it ain't gonna happen.The gov requires the power co to buy any extra power you prduce and requires you to sell it.Forget were I heard it 1st but have heard it from several places.Don't hold me to this its been a while sence I read all this...Still it would be nice to have your own power supply....One last thing they said the cells would save you enough $ to pay for themselves in a few yrs..../w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif

Lil' Paul