Sheild gas thoughts?

KubotainNH · Dec 30, 2016

I'll be buying an i-Mig 140 soon, mainly for sheet metal work. I've used a cheap flux core welder for a few years and also have a 220v stick welder, I'm looking forward to working with a MIG. Any suggestions on the shield gas? Tank renting or buying, which gas is best for the buck etc. Again, mostly car cage sheet metal. I plan on getting the flux core drive wheel for when it's windy. I don't have a nice shop like some folks....yet. Thanks and Happy New Year!

RNeumann · Dec 30, 2016

For the homeowner and hobbyist the (edit: 2 gas is what I have) gas is good. I (and most hobbyists) weld every so often and the bottle will last a long time. Not worth saving a few bucks on gas and then be limited to material type unless you have a major production facility that could save some real money by having dedicated gas. Have fun with it!!

I looked at my bottle and it is 2 gas. Sorry for the confusion.

Shield Arc · Dec 30, 2016

For sheet metal welding I would use C25 gas. 75% argon, and 25% C02. For structural welding I would use 100% C02.
My local welding supply told me if you rent bottles for 2-years, you might as well buy them.

KubotainNH · Dec 30, 2016

Good info, what exactly is 3 gas? Argon, C02 and something else? A quick search shows the 3rd as helium. Is that an even mix?

I see HF sells a small tank for $100 plus I could probably use a coupon on it. Some people mentioned having issues with getting those ones filled though. When it's time I'll talk to the local welding shop to see what the scoop is.

Shield Arc · Dec 30, 2016

KubotainNH said:
Good info, what exactly is 3 gas? Argon, C02 and something else? A quick search shows the 3rd as helium. Is that an even mix?

Generally that is used for stainless steel Mig welding.

Big Barn · Dec 30, 2016

Tri mix formulations depend upon your supplier.

Locally, I deal with Air Liquide. ALMIGTM is a tri-mix gas containing 91%Argon-5%CO2 and 4%Oxygen. Because of its high argon content it tends to penetrate less making it an excellent choice when welding thin gauge material such as auto bodies. Which would be ideal for what you intend to weld. IMHO of course.

Terry

Fallon · Dec 30, 2016

I bought my tank after researching & calculating lease vs. Buy. Tanks need a hydro test every 7 years, which costs $25. Generally you hand in your old tank & get another tank back full. You still own a tank, but what tank that's changes. I've had my tank filled & returned occasionally too though.

I hear some places don't like customer owned tanks & will not fill them or not fill them without ownership documentation. Haven't ran into that or any issues showing up with just a tank & no paperwork myself at the couple local welding shops I use here in Colorado. They are more mom & pop types though. Big guys like Airgas might be more picky.

You don't get hit with hydro test charges if you lease, but $25 every 7 years is a lot cheaper than a $10-30 annual lease.

I just upgraded from my 150cf? tank to a 250cf? tank if I recall. Cost $70 & apparently happens a few times a day at my local welding shop with people needing more capacity or more portability.

RNeumann · Dec 31, 2016

I would have bet money I have a 3 gas mix. But after reading this article it may be 2 gas. I'll have to check tomorrow. Get the bottle from your local supplier. They will be a good resource with buy vs rent, size etc.

MIG Welding FAQs

Birdhunter1 · Dec 31, 2016

I use Hobart .030 ER70S-6 wire and the 25% CO2/75% Argon in my Everlast 140 mig. The thinnest I've welded was 18 gauge, if I was going for car body work I might try the .025 wire but then again may just try it with my current .030 wire.

I like my current setup for what I use it for which is 1/4" and under, I use my stick machine on thicker stuff.

yomax4 · Dec 31, 2016

I'm not a big fan of the 3 gas mix containing O2. No need to add oxidants to your welds. It's an old mix that was sold to achieve a near spray transfer with less voltage and it works well for the smaller machines. If you want high Argon you could just go with 90/10 and have favorable results. 75/25 is certainly adequate for most all short arc welding but if you are buying an inverter welder, It would be in your best interest to at least try straight CO2. Most new inverters run CO2 pretty well with minimal spatter and 1/2 the cost of an argon mix and the gas lasts 2x longer. If you don't like what you get switch back. You can rent a 5# co2 tank for a trial for less than $20.

Oldpath05 · Dec 31, 2016

At my work we use 95/5 with 70s solid wire, more smother arc then 75/25<we use that with flux core wire. I go to my welding suppler and he says it would cost him to much to get 95/5, he let me try that 3 gas mixture, Stargon I think it was and I seem to get more porosity with it so I went back to 75/25.

Also at my work we started using Walter brand anti spatter, that stuff is the absolutely the best anti spatter pray I know of, more pricey so they dont like handing it out, but I'll buy some for my shop when I get a few extra $$$, the cost I've found so far is around $30.00, most of that is shipping, and seems to be hard to find online.

Big Barn · Dec 31, 2016

Oldpath05 said:
At my work we use 95/5 with 70s solid wire, more smother arc then 75/25<we use that with flux core wire. I go to my welding suppler and he says it would cost him to much to get 95/5, he let me try that 3 gas mixture, Stargon I think it was and I seem to get more porosity with it so I went back to 75/25.

Also at my work we started using Walter brand anti spatter, that stuff is the absolutely the best anti spatter pray I know of, more pricey so they dont like handing it out, but I'll buy some for my shop when I get a few extra $$$, the cost I've found so far is around $30.00, most of that is shipping, and seems to be hard to find online.

Oldpath is right about the Walter brand anti spatter. Can't remember what I paid, but I think it was on sale at the time at my LWS.

The aerosol can of Lloyds was a gift and I haven't tried it yet.

Terry

BukitCase · Dec 31, 2016

I try to stay away from stuff that just has to be cleaned off so paint will stick so I don't use anti-spatter - pic is .120" wall 2" square tube, mm252, C25 gas, thicker welds (because sides needed to be ground FLUSH) were wire brushed ONLY, sides are as welded in the pic - I will OCCASIONALLY get a couple little BB's, I can almost just let 'em LOOK at a slag hammer and they fall off :laughing:

roadhunter · Dec 31, 2016

I've had poor luck with my everlast mig and c-25. Lots and lots of splatter.

BukitCase · Dec 31, 2016

Maybe Everlast "tunes" 'em for CO2? Is there any kind of inductance control on it? Mark could very likely help you sort that out, he's not exactly a "noob" at welding like ShieldArc :laughing: ... Steve

KubotainNH · Dec 31, 2016

Great posts, I appreciate all the info. I like the trial bottle idea. Roadhunter, what are you using for gas seeing it doesn't like the c25?

Shield Arc · Dec 31, 2016

BukitCase said:
Mark could very likely help you sort that out, he's not exactly a "noob" at welding like ShieldArc :laughing: ... Steve

Well I 'am a hobbyist!

Mark @ Everlast · Jan 1, 2017

Spatter is minimal on the units I've used. Yes, they do work well with CO2. I use a C18 mix myself. Smooth as silk.

roadhunter · Jan 1, 2017

BukitCase said:
Maybe Everlast "tunes" 'em for CO2? Is there any kind of inductance control on it? Mark could very likely help you sort that out, he's not exactly a "noob" at welding like ShieldArc :laughing: ... Steve

I've already wasted plenty of time trying to get it to improve with no luck. I use the same wire and gas that my Miller 175 ran perfectly. I'm not willing to buy special wire or gas for the machine just to make it work better as that defeats the purpose of saving money on an Everlast if you give it all back on shipping special wire and gas in the long run just to make it work. Mark is a salesman, keep that in mind when you ask a question.

I have tried working with Mark but was not impressed. I won't' go into details but I would not own another Everlast welder simply because of Mark. I actually like my everlast arc welders just fine but the 2 migs I have had did not work well for me. It some point I just need to sell the Imig 200 but I suspect it will not be worth much as Everlast does not maintain it's value like other brands do. I recently sold a Hypertherm plasma cutter for $110 less than I paid for it 10 years ago.