So would you buy a new GM truck now?

[charliepff]

Builder;

I use to live in PA. In an area that was dominated by coal unions. It is the same thing ust on a bigger scale. While these unions did make work conditions better they did ruin the companies by the demands for salaries and the fact they had the companies hands tied when they would try to get rid of the occasional slacker or person who just did not want to do his job. It was that bad at a certain co. that the guys had lazy boy chairs. That is ridiculous. What ended up happening is the employer filed for bankruptcy then hired new people. This only lasted so long before the local regrouped and sued the company for there jobs back. Do they have there same wages; no but they have there jobs back. It was just the same that no one was there to tell them no you cannot demand this much money because it is ridiculous. While the work conditions are different it is still the same. Instead of the government regulating just the corporations they need to be looking at union regulation. Then you have the unions for public safety were I am at and we have no rights what so ever. VA is a right to work state so we can not demand anything.

 

[PA hayseed]

Thanks Dargo for omitting the rest of my sentence to make your point. Maybe you should look up logic, and see what an ad hominen attack is.

Yes, I currently work as a non union employee (what we call fair share) in a closed shop, for the state of PA. I don't have blinders on, I am forced to pay fair share dues even though I do not like the union there. You apparently have been somehow slighted, or have that perception, regarding unions. Unions, although largely vilified in the U.S., have brought about fundamental changes in the way we work, and how we get paid. Alot of people believe that we no longer need them around, that they served their purpose and they should go away. For some reason, people believe that the government will look out for us. The government has never helped workers out prior to the start of unions, they largely left it up to corporations. Now some here may argue the the labor relations board, or osha, or some other government entity will take care of the trouble. All I can say to that is review your history books. Never has worked that way, and it never will. The vast majority of senior political officials will likely leave govenrment and go sit on an executive Board for a corporation. They will then use their influence to get what the corporation wants done. But hey, don't believe a word I say, look it up yourself - especially in the defense industry.

For those people here that think the unions bankrupted GM, or will bankrupt GM, I guess you believe that:
1) they don't have bloated management
2) Their executives don't make 10-50x the highest paid UAW employees' pay, not including all the perks
3) The managment and executives in the company were hired based on their experience and knowledge of the industry
4) they never saw a crisis coming
5) the union employees don't really work, they sit around and read the newspaper all day
6) the medias portrayal of the UAW workers pay is true and correct. That everyone is making 90k a year there, and there is no such thing as seniority/promotion/and skilled vs. unskilled labor
7) they never had a choice but to agree the unions demands.
8) unions are filled with evil mobsters that rob corporations of their paltry earnings.

 

[redneckford]

It's called a UAW STRIKE. When your labor force is paid more than any labor force in the world, but still continues as recently as 3 years ago to strike for yet higher pay, less work and more benefits, they have their employer in a hopeless situation.

Look at other members of the Dow Jones industrials. They have overpaid CEOs and fleets of private jets, yet most aren't facing bankruptcy. The common denominators are that the gov't overegulates the auto industry and they are hog tied by the UAW, the most powerful union ever in the world.

I agree they're overpaid, but the unions & the gov't regulations put the nail in the coffin before CEO salaries.

Three years ago---weren't the big 3 making obscene profits on those SUV's and Pickups back then(gas $1.50)-----How much money did they put in the SAVINGS ACCOUNT THEN????(Did they pay down those legacy cost)-----how much money did they give in bonuses to their management????
Remember hurt a man we will just hire another one hurt a mule we have to buy another one ---PROTECT THE MULE AT ALL COST!!!!
Gas two months ago $4.00 gas today $1.50 happy days are here again!!!????
Government making money on good investments??????
Unions still have their place---Don't blame them because they want a bathroom "IN" their house----not out back!!!!
Where and who is making $60 dollars per hour---most I have talked with are making $25-$35 no more than those that make gas and jet fuel for those CEO Jets!!! (or the paper that they wipe their---you know what I mean--Paper Makers) I wish someone could give us a real life comparison of the wages and benefits cost at Union plants and Non Union plants ---The Devil is in the Details ---Do those non union plants work full time does the states pay their medical care---Like Wally World---If you want to live like that move to India or China!!!!
Fair Trade not Free Trade---Who pays Renault health care cost in France????
What about the bidding wars down south for Foreign Car MFG Plants?????
What about AIG and all those golf playing fouls on WALL street--I bet most of them can't drive a nail nor bolt a seat in a car!!!!! TRUTH MATTERS
2+2= 3(FOR ME) AND 1 for you ---that is WALL street math

 

[kenmac]

There is a Toyota plant right up the road from me. Job satisfaction is about as high as possible and the workers are paid a very fair wage along with great benefits. How can that be with no union?

There is a Mercedes Benz & Honda plant close to me. Neither of which are union & are having problems selling autos.Mercedes has shut down auto production for a few weeks & offered several employees a buy out. Honda has scaled back production .But no lay offs as of yet. The Union has tried unsucessfully to organize these 2 plants several times. The Employees voted the Union down each time. This is a right to work state. If you work in a union shop . You don't have to be a member of the Union to work in that shop

 

[mjarrels]

Never had a GM truck other than a friends (1976 GMC) about 8 mpg... Did have a Pontiac 1970 GP, 12 MPG with a boat behind it or not... always 12 MPG. I can buy a toyota corrlla in asia with a diesel getting 50 MPG on any day... Gov't rules are killing the car co... My 22 HP Kubota tractor emits no smoke, 1961 ford tractor smokes until warm, Farmall doesn't smoke at all (gas)... Get the gov't out of the big 3 and all will be well!

mark

 

[kycontrols]

To the original questions. I am looking for a new truck and GM is totally out of the picture. I like their truck's looks but my previous GM cars were less than desirable. I also expect their quality to drop in the short term as they work to cut cost and because of moral. This same reason also makes me leary of a Ford at this point.

One of the reason that the big three has issues are experience. My first new car was 96 pontiac sunfire and it was not the best. Because of that I will not buy another GM car. When I buy a car I expect it to last about 10 years or 200k miles relatively maintenance free. I have had they look with Honda, Toyota and Ford in my family.

 

[jeffster]

Don't confuse car quality with truck quality though. I too probably won't look at an American car for a while, at least until I get ready to trade the BMW, which will likely be a few more years. However, my 06 Silverado (Duramax) is such a great truck, I can't really complain. 52k on it, owned it since new, all options and no complaints other than cheap leather on the seats. If it wasn't for the fact that it is paid for, I would probably get another one and take advantage of the cheap financing. I have no doubt that one off the lot today will be just as reliable. Now, if they went with a new motor or tranny, all bets are off.

Before the 06, I had a 2000 Silverado 1/2 ton that I also bought new and it provided 5 years and 95,000 worth of trouble free miles. The only thing I ever replaced in it was the fuel pump and the passenger door window regulator. Grandfather has a 98 Silverado with close to 200k and still going strong. To each his own, of course, but for me I wouldn't hesitate to buy another.

 

[Builder]

I'm tempted to run out and get another GMC Sierra because the deals are incredible and I'd really like a bigger utility body. I'd feel really stupid giving up on my perfectly good '07 Sierra, though.

 

[WilliamBos]

I'm tempted to run out and get another GMC Sierra because the deals are incredible and I'd really like a bigger utility body. I'd feel really stupid giving up on my perfectly good '07 Sierra, though.

You can give it too me. I will gladly give it a good home.

 

[gemini5362]

I agree with you on the unions putting unreal stress on labor costs for the big 3. I really don't know how they lasted this long. The unions truly slaughtered their own money pig. The pendulum truly swung too far in the union's direction.


However, on the corp jets, one has to be realisitic. It is IMPOSSIBLE for today's corporate executives of companies as large and GM or Ford to conduct business in today's world WITHOUT corporate private jets. Sometimes these execs need to be in 3 cities thousands of miles apart in one day. These guys can't drive cars between meetings and can't rely on a travel agent with plane tickets. They need to be able to fly in a heartbeat anywhere, anytime.

look, all this corp jet stuff is just grandstanding by government officials on the bailout oversight committee to make the CEO's look bad. If you want to gripe about personal jets, Nancy Pelosi has her own private air force jet she flies around in wasting taxpayer dollars.

At least the money that CEOs use to fly their jets was earned through free enterprise, not taken from our paychecks to fly some blowhard senator around.

BTW: Ford has 7 and GM has 4 corp jets. GM has grounded their fleet in a symbolic effort to show they are slashing costs. Realistically, it might actually hurt them because their execs cannot respond to being somewhere immediately.

Builder it was not my intent to convey that unions put unreal stress on the big 3. Actually I believe I said that any benefits or salary they got was from contract negotiation. Management went to the bargaining table and agreed to the contract. At any point in the negotiation they could have walked away. I believe that the way management is paid and bonuses given is a bigger problem than the unions.


Having a fleet of jets is necessary ? I would love to see the numbers on what it costs Ford to maintain 7 corporate jets versuse leasing one when the odd time they needed it. Technically any meeting you want to talk about can done over the internet with one of the meeting programs if you needed to. I cant imagine them haveing enough people that need to be in three states the same day. At least enough people to warrant 7 jets. Maybe if they downsized management and had someone with decision making capabiliites located in various parts of the US they would not need jets.