Tired Ford 3000 engine......

[Kaliburz]

Here are some pics....
4630 engine- pic of the 'new' re-man engine

tranny- one on the left is the 'new' one, on right is old

oil- bucket was new, white, clean. What you see is what came out of the rear case

case gunk- just what it is. This pic is after it was cleaned up a little...I tilted the rear end for ward (lowering it) and it drained more. Also wiped out some gunk w/ a shop towl. It was like 1/4" thick...

hoist- pick of the custom mount I made for the cherry picker. Goes on to a forklift.....the project couldn't be possible w/out this!

I'll have to pour some clean oil in to see if I can wash out the case. Case drain is stuck, so I'm stuck to letting it drain from the front.....

Was going to assemble engine/tranny on ground, then insall whole. I think it would be a bit heavy to do it that way.... So it'll go up seperately.

 

[Kaliburz]

8/7- Tranny in.....
Tomorrow....hopefully the engine.

And yes, we remembered the coupling shaft for the PTO......

 

[Soundguy]

Nice progress. I'm enjoying the play by play and the pics.

If only I had some pop corn, a nice beverage, easy chair, and could watch this heppening ( and not sweat )...

Soundguy

 

[Kaliburz]

Heck, had to wait till 6pm to do anything. Was in the upper 90's/low 100's yesterday. Was way to hot to even climb on the thing..... da barn wasn't quite big enough to park it inside.

The only "issue" I had was, the studs I got were a bit short (4 of the 6). Had to match the studs since the OEM were odd sized. Should have went next size up, but was afraid of clearence issues. The other 4, the stud is just a shy from sticking out of the nut. But the tranny is in. All the thing will be doing is sitting up there. Case is held together primarly by the two top and bottom bolts. Figure I'll check the bolts now and then to make sure they don't work loose. Torque setting was lower then I thought it would be.

The pic, that's my buddy and his brother. The "younger one" was running the forklift, lifting and tilting while we "old farts" lined everything up and hoped not to mash threads and fingers. We were surprised the tranny went in as smooth as it did.

 

[Soundguy]

I know what you mean about the heat. I got home yesterday around 4 and got supepr ready for the wife and I, as she worked a bit later than i did. I actually waited till 7pm to head out and feed the animals and collect eggs... Even at 7pm.. sun was still out and hot.. go figure..

I'm glad to see I'm not the only guy who wears those nitrile blue gloves when doing greasy work... makes hand cleanup way easier.. especially the fingernails.

Soundguy

 

[Kaliburz]

8/8- Engine in. Nearly didn't want to go in...then the younger brother said to turn the crank...slipped right in.... pics later..... (I only wished my engine tilter was a two way tilt instead of one.....for/aft AND left/right).

Oh ya...... tag that came w/ engine said that oil system should be presure lubed prior to start up. How does one do that? I know how it's done w/ gas engines (via the distributor hole and adapter)....but how about diesels that don't have a distribtor hole?

One of the NH 'shop boys' at the local dealer said that there should be enough assembly lube to take care of the initial start. BUT, the tag said to do it... I'd rather err on the side of caution....

I was thinking, get a PVC pipe, cap ends, drill/tap a hole- one for a hose, one for the air chuck, put oil in it and then put presssure on it. (Yes, crazy).....

 

[Soundguy]

What about back pressure on the oil gauge/ sender line.. or an adapter over the pickup tube?? ( grasping here... )

On some engines the oil pressure relief valve is easy to get to, and add oil there.. etc.. not so sure about yours though...

Soundguy

 

[Kaliburz]

Sorry for the lack of updates/pics. Been busy w/ a lot of stuff. Just realized a few days back that some of the coolent lines in the semi truck will have to be changed before harvest....ugg...LOTS of coolent to drain from that system.

Any how, I came up against a nice "snafoo". Temp sender "plug" from the factory is a square female. Usually a 1/4 or 3/8" ratchet can be stuck in there and it can be removed. Funny thing is, the square is bigger then 1/4 but smallter then a 3/8" drive! Even thought of shoving a flat head screw driver in there to see if I could back it out, but thought against it. Forgot to use the caliper on it..... but a 1/4 drive would just spin, way too small. The 3/8 is big by quite a bit. I take it there is a "special wrench" or do I have to get some square stock and grind till it fits in said square hole......

"If it's not one thing..... it's an other." (or a quote from Mr. Murphy.... "It happens".)

Edit-
Just looked at something on tractordata.com about Ford 4000's. It listed a SN/ID on the end of the info. Funny thing is, it lists the 4000's as having a "C" prefix stamped usually on the tranny. BUT, looking at the IT shop manual, it says that the 4000's had a "D" prefix while the 3000's had a "C".......

Now I'm really confused!!!!???? Especially since the old engine bore/stroke matched a 4000. And while browsing the PDF parts manual.... some of the "body parts" listed match the 4000 shape... not much, but still..... Could the IT shop manual be wrong w/ their prefix????

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Sorry for the lack of updates/pics. Been busy w/ a lot of stuff. Just realized a few days back that some of the coolent lines in the semi truck will have to be changed before harvest....ugg...LOTS of coolent to drain from that system.

Any how, I came up against a nice "snafoo". Temp sender "plug" from the factory is a square female. Usually a 1/4 or 3/8" ratchet can be stuck in there and it can be removed. Funny thing is, the square is bigger then 1/4 but smallter then a 3/8" drive! Even thought of shoving a flat head screw driver in there to see if I could back it out, but thought against it. Forgot to use the caliper on it..... but a 1/4 drive would just spin, way too small. The 3/8 is big by quite a bit. I take it there is a "special wrench" or do I have to get some square stock and grind till it fits in said square hole......

"If it's not one thing..... it's an other." (or a quote from Mr. Murphy.... "It happens".)

Edit-
Just looked at something on tractordata.com about Ford 4000's. It listed a SN/ID on the end of the info. Funny thing is, it lists the 4000's as having a "C" prefix stamped usually on the tranny. BUT, looking at the IT shop manual, it says that the 4000's had a "D" prefix while the 3000's had a "C".......

Now I'm really confused!!!!???? Especially since the old engine bore/stroke matched a 4000. And while browsing the PDF parts manual.... some of the "body parts" listed match the 4000 shape... not much, but still..... Could the IT shop manual be wrong w/ their prefix????

Not saying the I&T manual is wrong, but that's been the general complaint with them over the years. MISinformation. They're 99.9% accurate, but just enough possibility of bad info to loose faith in them. Then again, tractordata.com has been known to screw up once in a while too.

 

[Soundguy]

4000's will have a '4' or a 'D' depending on age.

Pre 3-68 will be a 4.. and 4-68 to 1975 will be a 'D'

Give me your sn, model id and production code.. I'll give you the chassie rundown, tranny, fuel, and exact date the unti was built including the shift.. assuming no parts have bene changed out.. etc.

Soundguy

 

[Kaliburz]

OKay.... an electrical question. Been so long since I took it apart....(and they didn't have a connector either)....

Any how, original "generator" wiring has been modified to use a GM alternator the so called "3 wire type".

Any how, I"m confused on one point. If I recall right, originally, the "sense" wire as they call it (#2) was connected to the ignition switch. But, I've found schematics (like in link) that shows the #2 wire can be connected to the "Batt" erminal.

http://www.amphicar.net/darrellgaddy/Delco 10si alternator/Amphicar_GM_10Si_Alt.htm


But, other tractor sites w/ converstion info says to connect the #2 wire to the ignition switch!

So, which system will work? Or do both work?

Originally, the dash light was not wired correctly. I fixed that.... just not sure where to put the other wire....on 'Batt' or to the ignition....

 

[Soundguy]

3 wire gm delco 10si or 12si alternator.

big stud is the battery stud.. #1 is the field control, #2 is the sense. Sense can loop right down to the bat stud. Field control needs to go thru a 194 lamp or trailer marker lamp.. or a diode, and then to ignition switch. If using diode, make sure the cathode ( marked end ) is towards the #1 stud.. not the ignition switch. if you get it backwards.. nothing bad happens. but alternator may not charge. Get a diode rated for 1+ amp..

Wire the bat wire to the same location as the bat wire that originally came from the regulator on the old genny..

Soundguy

 

[Kaliburz]

If I recall, the #1 was wired weird. It wasn't going to the "dash light". I'm not even sure how they had it... seemed like it was wired to a hot wire(?). Any now, I've made some changes so that it does now. I'll check to see what the actual bulb number is. The specs on it says it's 2.2 watt.....

This is a big 10si/12si alternator. Case has 105amps marked on it.

As long as it charges and doesn't kill the battery....

 

[Soundguy]

Wiring #1 hot will make it charge.. but when the unit is turned off.. it will slowly drain the battery.. thus the need for the lamp bulb isolation.. or preferably a diode..

Soundguy

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Wiring #1 hot will make it charge.. but when the unit is turned off.. it will slowly drain the battery.. thus the need for the lamp bulb isolation.. or preferably a diode..

Soundguy

Won't the alternator run at WFO full output if wired to 12v hot? (External reg type alt.)

 

[Soundguy]

Won't the alternator run at WFO full output if wired to 12v hot? (External reg type alt.)

The post above says we are talking about a 3 wire Gm 10si or 12si alternator.. If that is so, then it is an internally regulated unit.. and the #1 wire is used to turn on the field current.

All bets are off if it is an externally regulated unit vs a delco 10si/12si or clone therof.

Soundguy

 

[Kaliburz]

The post above says we are talking about a 3 wire Gm 10si or 12si alternator.. If that is so, then it is an internally regulated unit.. and the #1 wire is used to turn on the field current.

All bets are off if it is an externally regulated unit vs a delco 10si/12si or clone therof.

Soundguy

It's a GM unit alright. Says "Delco Remey" or what ever it was.... might have said "GM". Forgot.

Any how, the "idiot" light works. It turns off when the engine is runnign and on with it not running (w/ key "on"). If the battery dies, I'll install a diode....know right where I'll put it too!

Oh yes, it's together! She's running! Injection system had fuel in it from the factory! Only thing I did was bleed the fuel filters and turned the key (after filling the fluids.) But......

Yes, there is always a "but" to everything....and this time I really wish there wasn't.....

The rebuilt tranny is not rebuilt. It's .....toast. Yes, it moves in 1's and R1. But didn't have a chance to test the rest of the gears since I have a tranny oil leak....and it's INSIDE the bellhousing! Oil poured out like it was a water fall..... And harvest is expected to start the week of Labor Day..... I'm going to tow her to the shop tomorrow (Sunday)-only time a buddy can help- he works during the week..... I'm out of time.... got behind on stuff trying to finish her up.....now THIS happens. Not looking forward to that drive.... Don't know any one w/ a low boy wide enough to haul it down....

So ya know the mood I'm in .......

 

[Farmwithjunk]

The post above says we are talking about a 3 wire Gm 10si or 12si alternator.. If that is so, then it is an internally regulated unit.. and the #1 wire is used to turn on the field current.

All bets are off if it is an externally regulated unit vs a delco 10si/12si or clone therof.

Soundguy

According to the auto electric shop where I have my alternator work done, as well as a couple odd manuals, these are (And marked as such) GM Delco 10s (NO "i". apparently that indicates internal reg???) alternators (3-wire GM), of early vintage (1965/1974), using external regulators. "R" wire/connection supplies control current FROM external regulator ("stator" terminal on regulator), "F" wire/connection is field current, supplied from terminal on regulator . These are O.E.M. units on several tractor lines. (Massey from 1968 to 1975, Deere 1969 to 1972, ect) It works just like later internal regulated models as far as actual function (output at "batt" connection), just "first generation" alternator/regulator technology.

Long story short, it's the same alternator, just the regulator is under the dash and not IN the alternator.

On my MF150 as well as the friends 135 I'm working on currently, these alternators will stay as they are, in an effort to remain as original as possible. (Even though it would be MUCH less complicated to use an internal regulated alternator.)

Due to my familiarity with external reg. alt., that's the first thought that comes to my mind when talking "3-wire GM".

 

[Kaliburz]

The alternator is not orginal equipment. Original was a generator. The wiring harness has been modified to "work" w/ the alternator. I didn't do it, was like that when I purchased. I just cleaned things up a bit.... I hope.

The alt is also set up to drive and electric tachometer for engine speed.... so technically, there is 4 connections..... Each a seperate wire.

For the few minute(s) that she ran, it was sweet. I could feel the power of that 4630 engine. Moving it forward/backward, I coldn't detect any change in power output (unlike before the swap).

 

[Farmwithjunk]

The alternator is not orginal equipment. Original was a generator. The wiring harness has been modified to "work" w/ the alternator. I didn't do it, was like that when I purchased. I just cleaned things up a bit.... I hope.

The alt is also set up to drive and electric tachometer for engine speed.... so technically, there is 4 connections..... Each a seperate wire.

For the few minute(s) that she ran, it was sweet. I could feel the power of that 4630 engine. Moving it forward/backward, I coldn't detect any change in power output (unlike before the swap).

Sounds like you're getting ever so close to having it done.

Nothing like reworking something that's been "farmer fixed". You never know if it's right, or if they just found some way to make things work. I'm UNdoing a "field modification" on a buddy's 135 Massey at this time. Apparently he ripped all the alternator wiring off, shreading a wire or 2 along the way, then just started hooking things up to other things until the ammeter started moving. It was putting around 18V to a 12V battery.

That ain't good.

He had the sensing wire tied to field terminal on alt.. Field wire was missing. On an external regulated alternator, that gives you full output from alternator. I like O.E.M. That's the way his will be when I'm done. Gotta grab a new battery in the AM. (Old one is sorta "ballooned")