Tired Ford 3000 engine......

[Kaliburz]

OKay.... an electrical question. Been so long since I took it apart....(and they didn't have a connector either)....

Any how, original "generator" wiring has been modified to use a GM alternator the so called "3 wire type".

Any how, I"m confused on one point. If I recall right, originally, the "sense" wire as they call it (#2) was connected to the ignition switch. But, I've found schematics (like in link) that shows the #2 wire can be connected to the "Batt" erminal.

http://www.amphicar.net/darrellgaddy/Delco 10si alternator/Amphicar_GM_10Si_Alt.htm


But, other tractor sites w/ converstion info says to connect the #2 wire to the ignition switch!

So, which system will work? Or do both work?

Originally, the dash light was not wired correctly. I fixed that.... just not sure where to put the other wire....on 'Batt' or to the ignition....

 

[Soundguy]

3 wire gm delco 10si or 12si alternator.

big stud is the battery stud.. #1 is the field control, #2 is the sense. Sense can loop right down to the bat stud. Field control needs to go thru a 194 lamp or trailer marker lamp.. or a diode, and then to ignition switch. If using diode, make sure the cathode ( marked end ) is towards the #1 stud.. not the ignition switch. if you get it backwards.. nothing bad happens. but alternator may not charge. Get a diode rated for 1+ amp..

Wire the bat wire to the same location as the bat wire that originally came from the regulator on the old genny..

Soundguy

 

[Kaliburz]

If I recall, the #1 was wired weird. It wasn't going to the "dash light". I'm not even sure how they had it... seemed like it was wired to a hot wire(?). Any now, I've made some changes so that it does now. I'll check to see what the actual bulb number is. The specs on it says it's 2.2 watt.....

This is a big 10si/12si alternator. Case has 105amps marked on it.

As long as it charges and doesn't kill the battery....

 

[Soundguy]

Wiring #1 hot will make it charge.. but when the unit is turned off.. it will slowly drain the battery.. thus the need for the lamp bulb isolation.. or preferably a diode..

Soundguy

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Wiring #1 hot will make it charge.. but when the unit is turned off.. it will slowly drain the battery.. thus the need for the lamp bulb isolation.. or preferably a diode..

Soundguy

Won't the alternator run at WFO full output if wired to 12v hot? (External reg type alt.)

 

[Soundguy]

Won't the alternator run at WFO full output if wired to 12v hot? (External reg type alt.)

The post above says we are talking about a 3 wire Gm 10si or 12si alternator.. If that is so, then it is an internally regulated unit.. and the #1 wire is used to turn on the field current.

All bets are off if it is an externally regulated unit vs a delco 10si/12si or clone therof.

Soundguy

 

[Kaliburz]

The post above says we are talking about a 3 wire Gm 10si or 12si alternator.. If that is so, then it is an internally regulated unit.. and the #1 wire is used to turn on the field current.

All bets are off if it is an externally regulated unit vs a delco 10si/12si or clone therof.

Soundguy

It's a GM unit alright. Says "Delco Remey" or what ever it was.... might have said "GM". Forgot.

Any how, the "idiot" light works. It turns off when the engine is runnign and on with it not running (w/ key "on"). If the battery dies, I'll install a diode....know right where I'll put it too!

Oh yes, it's together! She's running! Injection system had fuel in it from the factory! Only thing I did was bleed the fuel filters and turned the key (after filling the fluids.) But......

Yes, there is always a "but" to everything....and this time I really wish there wasn't.....

The rebuilt tranny is not rebuilt. It's .....toast. Yes, it moves in 1's and R1. But didn't have a chance to test the rest of the gears since I have a tranny oil leak....and it's INSIDE the bellhousing! Oil poured out like it was a water fall..... And harvest is expected to start the week of Labor Day..... I'm going to tow her to the shop tomorrow (Sunday)-only time a buddy can help- he works during the week..... I'm out of time.... got behind on stuff trying to finish her up.....now THIS happens. Not looking forward to that drive.... Don't know any one w/ a low boy wide enough to haul it down....

So ya know the mood I'm in .......

 

[Farmwithjunk]

The post above says we are talking about a 3 wire Gm 10si or 12si alternator.. If that is so, then it is an internally regulated unit.. and the #1 wire is used to turn on the field current.

All bets are off if it is an externally regulated unit vs a delco 10si/12si or clone therof.

Soundguy

According to the auto electric shop where I have my alternator work done, as well as a couple odd manuals, these are (And marked as such) GM Delco 10s (NO "i". apparently that indicates internal reg???) alternators (3-wire GM), of early vintage (1965/1974), using external regulators. "R" wire/connection supplies control current FROM external regulator ("stator" terminal on regulator), "F" wire/connection is field current, supplied from terminal on regulator . These are O.E.M. units on several tractor lines. (Massey from 1968 to 1975, Deere 1969 to 1972, ect) It works just like later internal regulated models as far as actual function (output at "batt" connection), just "first generation" alternator/regulator technology.

Long story short, it's the same alternator, just the regulator is under the dash and not IN the alternator.

On my MF150 as well as the friends 135 I'm working on currently, these alternators will stay as they are, in an effort to remain as original as possible. (Even though it would be MUCH less complicated to use an internal regulated alternator.)

Due to my familiarity with external reg. alt., that's the first thought that comes to my mind when talking "3-wire GM".

 

[Kaliburz]

The alternator is not orginal equipment. Original was a generator. The wiring harness has been modified to "work" w/ the alternator. I didn't do it, was like that when I purchased. I just cleaned things up a bit.... I hope.

The alt is also set up to drive and electric tachometer for engine speed.... so technically, there is 4 connections..... Each a seperate wire.

For the few minute(s) that she ran, it was sweet. I could feel the power of that 4630 engine. Moving it forward/backward, I coldn't detect any change in power output (unlike before the swap).

 

[Farmwithjunk]

The alternator is not orginal equipment. Original was a generator. The wiring harness has been modified to "work" w/ the alternator. I didn't do it, was like that when I purchased. I just cleaned things up a bit.... I hope.

The alt is also set up to drive and electric tachometer for engine speed.... so technically, there is 4 connections..... Each a seperate wire.

For the few minute(s) that she ran, it was sweet. I could feel the power of that 4630 engine. Moving it forward/backward, I coldn't detect any change in power output (unlike before the swap).

Sounds like you're getting ever so close to having it done.

Nothing like reworking something that's been "farmer fixed". You never know if it's right, or if they just found some way to make things work. I'm UNdoing a "field modification" on a buddy's 135 Massey at this time. Apparently he ripped all the alternator wiring off, shreading a wire or 2 along the way, then just started hooking things up to other things until the ammeter started moving. It was putting around 18V to a 12V battery.

That ain't good.

He had the sensing wire tied to field terminal on alt.. Field wire was missing. On an external regulated alternator, that gives you full output from alternator. I like O.E.M. That's the way his will be when I'm done. Gotta grab a new battery in the AM. (Old one is sorta "ballooned")