Welcome to my Nightmare!!!!

[CurlyDave]

Eddie:

I agree with Dozernut.

This is really a simple electrical problem. The "no solenoid click" is a big clue. I am betting on a bad battery cable or a bad cable end.

Even a failing battery has enough power to give a solenoid click.

 

[CurlyDave]

Eddie:

I agree with Dozernut.

This is really a simple electrical problem. The "no solenoid click" is a big clue. I am betting on a bad battery cable or a bad cable end.

Even a failing battery has enough power to give a solenoid click.

 

[hilld]

Eddie,

lets narrow down the problem.

First turn on the lights and see if they work, if they work but the engine won't crank, your batteries are ok and you need to look at the starter circuit. If the lights won't come on, you need to look at the battery, battery cables and ground connections to make sure you have juice.

To check the starting circuit, try this. On the starter solenoid, you should have a positive cable coming from the battery, make sure you have battery voltage there be it 12 or 24V. On the solenoid there is a smaller wire coming from the starter switch that will energize the solenoid, make sure it is connected securely. If it is, try cranking the engine over by jumpering from the large wire coming from the battery to the small wire coming from the starter switch, if it cranks, you problem is somewhere in the starter switch circuit. Chase the wires and make sure all the wires are securely connected to the switch. Also check the switch with an Ohmmeter or a testlight to make sure the switch is in good shape.

Hope that helps and good luck.

Derek

 

[hilld]

Eddie,

lets narrow down the problem.

First turn on the lights and see if they work, if they work but the engine won't crank, your batteries are ok and you need to look at the starter circuit. If the lights won't come on, you need to look at the battery, battery cables and ground connections to make sure you have juice.

To check the starting circuit, try this. On the starter solenoid, you should have a positive cable coming from the battery, make sure you have battery voltage there be it 12 or 24V. On the solenoid there is a smaller wire coming from the starter switch that will energize the solenoid, make sure it is connected securely. If it is, try cranking the engine over by jumpering from the large wire coming from the battery to the small wire coming from the starter switch, if it cranks, you problem is somewhere in the starter switch circuit. Chase the wires and make sure all the wires are securely connected to the switch. Also check the switch with an Ohmmeter or a testlight to make sure the switch is in good shape.

Hope that helps and good luck.

Derek

 

[Highbeam]

My international did that to me. It was a powershift tranny and it turns out that there was a well hidden safety interlock that wouldn't let it start with the powershifter in gear. Wiggle the for/aft lever a bit while the key is in the start position.

This is not nightmare stuff. No cherry picker on a loader bucket will be required. This is thorn in the side stuff.

 

[Highbeam]

My international did that to me. It was a powershift tranny and it turns out that there was a well hidden safety interlock that wouldn't let it start with the powershifter in gear. Wiggle the for/aft lever a bit while the key is in the start position.

This is not nightmare stuff. No cherry picker on a loader bucket will be required. This is thorn in the side stuff.

 

[EddieWalker]

Derek,

Thanks, I checked the batteries and had 25 volts. I went to the key and had 25 volts there as well. I then went to the starter and didn't have anything. I put the ohm guage on it and found the wire from the key went to this 50A fuse.

I had power in, but nothing coming out!!!

I also realized what happened.

The hot wire to the alternator lost it's plastic cover and was close enough to the case to make contact when I drove the dozer off the ramps. The contact shorted out the fuse.

This is a picture of what it all looks like. I had no idea it was a fuse, in fact, I just thought it was some unknown assesory that I didn't have to know about. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Eddie

 

[EddieWalker]

Derek,

Thanks, I checked the batteries and had 25 volts. I went to the key and had 25 volts there as well. I then went to the starter and didn't have anything. I put the ohm guage on it and found the wire from the key went to this 50A fuse.

I had power in, but nothing coming out!!!

I also realized what happened.

The hot wire to the alternator lost it's plastic cover and was close enough to the case to make contact when I drove the dozer off the ramps. The contact shorted out the fuse.

This is a picture of what it all looks like. I had no idea it was a fuse, in fact, I just thought it was some unknown assesory that I didn't have to know about. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Eddie

 

[EddieWalker]

For $84 you too can have a new 50A fuse!!! /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

To top it off, not only is it rediculous expensive, but it's totally different. The mechanics at Case had to look up the electrical schematics to figure out what is what.

Turns out it doesn't matter. The two big wires gor to either side. It don't matter. The small wires go to the small terminals on either side. Again, it don't matter wich side.

Once the hard part was figured out, it went togeteher real easy. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Eddie

 

[EddieWalker]

For $84 you too can have a new 50A fuse!!! /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

To top it off, not only is it rediculous expensive, but it's totally different. The mechanics at Case had to look up the electrical schematics to figure out what is what.

Turns out it doesn't matter. The two big wires gor to either side. It don't matter. The small wires go to the small terminals on either side. Again, it don't matter wich side.

Once the hard part was figured out, it went togeteher real easy. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Eddie

 

[HGM]

Ummmmm, that looks like a relay.... Does it work now? If I'm seeing it clear enough, you should have B+ at pin 85, 86 and 30 with the key on... When you go to the crank possition, you should have ground on 86 and B+ on 87... Might have the numbers crossed a bit, but I cant see while I'm typing /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[HGM]

Ummmmm, that looks like a relay.... Does it work now? If I'm seeing it clear enough, you should have B+ at pin 85, 86 and 30 with the key on... When you go to the crank possition, you should have ground on 86 and B+ on 87... Might have the numbers crossed a bit, but I cant see while I'm typing /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Farwell]

Eddie,
My JD 2010 has one of those little black boxes in the starting circuit as well. NAPA sells them for under $20. Not sure if it is a relay but it helps low current devices cope with high current devices. Some cars use them in the headlight circuits. Look up the Bosch number on the Internet and you will get the information you need.
Farwell

 

[Farwell]

Eddie,
My JD 2010 has one of those little black boxes in the starting circuit as well. NAPA sells them for under $20. Not sure if it is a relay but it helps low current devices cope with high current devices. Some cars use them in the headlight circuits. Look up the Bosch number on the Internet and you will get the information you need.
Farwell

 

[Highbeam]

Yes that little black bosch box was a relay. You can tell by the little schematic picture on the right side. A 50 amp/24 volt relay is a big one so that might be why it was so expensive. It looks like you found the old style starter solenoid relay that ford used to mount on the fender.

The locations of the wires for a relay are pretty important.

Did it work?

 

[Highbeam]

Yes that little black bosch box was a relay. You can tell by the little schematic picture on the right side. A 50 amp/24 volt relay is a big one so that might be why it was so expensive. It looks like you found the old style starter solenoid relay that ford used to mount on the fender.

The locations of the wires for a relay are pretty important.

Did it work?

 

[srs]

Eddie, great job! I too am sorry to hear this thread end. What's your next project? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[srs]

Eddie, great job! I too am sorry to hear this thread end. What's your next project? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[EddieWalker]

Stanley,

The dozer is running strong. I ran it for 3 hours yesterday just scraping my roads and pushing a few trees I had on the ground to my burn pile. No real stress of any kind on it, but I did run it at full throttle.

My oil preasure is lower now than before the rebuild, so that's a concern, but there's no smoke of any kind anymore!!

I checked the oil this morning and it's still clear looking.

The water level didn't drop any. I figured that it would drop after running it and any air in the block would be purged.

I still have the covers and plating to put back on, but otherwise it's ready to work. Just not in the heavy timber and brush.

My next project is to finish of my lake. I gotta a job I have to do next week, so I'll be back to digging in the dirt pretty soon!!!!!



Thank you everyone for your help and advice.

I did consider going to Napa for the fuse thingy. I buy all my filters and got half the hoses from them for a third of what Case charges. They have lots of stuff that I need, but I just figured this was too specialized for them and never gave them a try.

I also wanted it right away and figured Case was the best source. What I didn't expect was that they changed it to a different type. If I'd known that, I'd have been more likely to replace it from another source.

Eddie

 

[EddieWalker]

Stanley,

The dozer is running strong. I ran it for 3 hours yesterday just scraping my roads and pushing a few trees I had on the ground to my burn pile. No real stress of any kind on it, but I did run it at full throttle.

My oil preasure is lower now than before the rebuild, so that's a concern, but there's no smoke of any kind anymore!!

I checked the oil this morning and it's still clear looking.

The water level didn't drop any. I figured that it would drop after running it and any air in the block would be purged.

I still have the covers and plating to put back on, but otherwise it's ready to work. Just not in the heavy timber and brush.

My next project is to finish of my lake. I gotta a job I have to do next week, so I'll be back to digging in the dirt pretty soon!!!!!



Thank you everyone for your help and advice.

I did consider going to Napa for the fuse thingy. I buy all my filters and got half the hoses from them for a third of what Case charges. They have lots of stuff that I need, but I just figured this was too specialized for them and never gave them a try.

I also wanted it right away and figured Case was the best source. What I didn't expect was that they changed it to a different type. If I'd known that, I'd have been more likely to replace it from another source.

Eddie