First time tractor buyer for haying

[sunup]

Looking for a tractor w/ 65 to 125 HP for 50 acres of alfalfa. Have looked at IH 1066 and 1086, JD 3020 and 4020, seen New Hollands and Branson 5530 and 6530. Would like to be able to also disk and rip in addition to baling etc.
Does anyone have any input on tractors above or suggestions? Especially on the Bransons.
Thanks in advance,
Sunup

 

[James Loehr]

I have been out of farming for a while but when I was farming and when hay was ready getting parts if I had a breakdown was number one. I had a John Deere baler and a part broke when I have a lot of hay down. Went to the dealer and was told the part would have to be ordered and would be there next day. Told him I wish it were today I have hay down and rain coming. He went out in the lot a removed the part from another baler and off I went. Point is all those tractors will do the job but what brand will get you up and running fastest. In my area it would be first Deere and next Case IH.

 

[JasG]

I agree with James. The Deere will be the easiest to maintain, but also get a feel for you local dealer. Both our CaseIH dealer and the Deere dealer we deal with are great. Go out of there way even for our very small operation.

The IH 1066 and 1086 were very good strong tractors. The torque amplifiers were kind of a weak spot but for 50 acrers pobably won't be an issue. I never liked the stacked PTO's due to the 540 shaft never seemed to line up right. These were also cold blooded compared to a Deere 20 or 40 series. Parts aren't always stocked, but usually a day away.

The 3020 and 4020 are great tractors. I have spent many hours on several 4020's and my backhoe is a 500a which is a heavy duty 3020 with a backhoe frame wrapped around it. You might want to add 4040 and 4240 to your Deere model list. You might be able to pick up one of these for similar money to a 4020 due to the 4020's seem to be "hot" right now. I wouldn't recommend a 30 series Deere, they were cold blooded and didn't have the pulling power of the 20 or 40 series IMO. The 40 series also had the quad range tranny vs the 20 series syncro. They both had powershift with is a good trans, but expensive if something goes wrong.

The 30 series are reliable tractors, just don't start good or have the torque rise of other Deere models.

Search these forum and you will find lots more information.

 

[civesnedfield]

Take a look at the JD 4320. I believe it was tested at 116hp. I have a buddy with a dairy farm that has one. It is basically the big brother to the 4020. Price seems to be better than the 4020. It is a 6 cyl turbo charged. In my opinion it is a real work horse and nimble too. He pulls a JD 1360 moco and no matter how tall or thick the grass is this tractor doesn't even break a sweat. If you have a choice go for the Power shift vs the Select shift.

 

[flusher]

Looking for a tractor w/ 65 to 125 HP for 50 acres of alfalfa. Have looked at IH 1066 and 1086, JD 3020 and 4020, seen New Hollands and Branson 5530 and 6530. Would like to be able to also disk and rip in addition to baling etc.
Does anyone have any input on tractors above or suggestions? Especially on the Bransons.
Thanks in advance,
Sunup

Two of my neighbors have 35 hp Bransons and seem to like them. Heavy tractors, pretty simple--much like my Mahindra 5525 (54 hp engine, 45 hp pto).

Another neighbor does 30 acres of irrigated alfalfa. He uses a MF 294 for planting with a Brillion seeder, for discing (when needed), and for raking with a dual side delivery rake setup. When he established the field a few years ago, he used a D7 Cat to pull a subsoiler to break up the hardpan down to about 2 feet depth. He does shallower ripping with an IH 4366



He mows with a Hesston swather (13-ft head)



and bales with a self-propelled NH500 baler

 

[dmay]

Looking for a tractor w/ 65 to 125 HP for 50 acres of alfalfa. Have looked at IH 1066 and 1086, JD 3020 and 4020, seen New Hollands and Branson 5530 and 6530. Would like to be able to also disk and rip in addition to baling etc.
Does anyone have any input on tractors above or suggestions? Especially on the Bransons.
Thanks in advance,
Sunup

What you really need to do is choose your haying equipment before you choose your tractor. The equipment size will dictate the tractor size. Do you own any hay equipment currently? What size of bales do you intend to produce. Big equipment difference between what is needed for small squares and large round/squares. Also you mention only 50 acres. You may want, but for the acreage size, you do not need big equipment. I would save my money and get only what I need to bale the size of bale I want.

Curious about your need to disk/rip a hay field? You only do this once ever 5-7 years when the hay field declines to produce and you want to renew/refresh the field. Why not custom this work out every 5 years and save your money buying a tractor and equipment suitable for this once per 5 year job.

I used to own and hay 80 acres. I baled small squares. I used a MF265 tractor (65HP). A NH489 (9ft) mower/conditioner. A MF124 small square baler. A NH1002 bale wagon (55 bales). All 1973. Due to weather/rain being crazy I would often cut and bale just 25 acres each time. That way every task (cut/bale/pick&stack) was a pleasant 6 hour/day task. Check weather and repeat until done.

Everyone is different. This worked for me.

 

[RickB]

Take a look at the JD 4320. I believe it was tested at 116hp. I have a buddy with a dairy farm that has one. It is basically the big brother to the 4020. Price seems to be better than the 4020. It is a 6 cyl turbo charged. In my opinion it is a real work horse and nimble too. He pulls a JD 1360 moco and no matter how tall or thick the grass is this tractor doesn't even break a sweat. If you have a choice go for the Power shift vs the Select shift.

He's going to have to look pretty hard for a 4320 powershift. They never built any.

 

[sunup]

thank you all for your response and input
sunup

 

[civesnedfield]

He's going to have to look pretty hard for a 4320 powershift. They never built any.

Yes you are correct sorry for my FOPA. Even so it is still the tractor I would recommend.

 

[art]

I agree with James. The Deere will be the easiest to maintain, but also get a feel for you local dealer. Both our CaseIH dealer and the Deere dealer we deal with are great. Go out of there way even for our very small operation.

The IH 1066 and 1086 were very good strong tractors. The torque amplifiers were kind of a weak spot but for 50 acrers pobably won't be an issue. I never liked the stacked PTO's due to the 540 shaft never seemed to line up right. These were also cold blooded compared to a Deere 20 or 40 series. Parts aren't always stocked, but usually a day away.

The 30 series are reliable tractors, just don't start good or have the torque rise of other Deere models.

Search these forum and you will find lots more information.

I have worked in central NY with winter temps down to twenty plus below 0, Many a green farmer with 20 through 40 series that owned a red tractor for the manure spreader because as they would say "they start better unplugged then the green ones plugged in!

Watch the 30 series, they had the same rear end as he 20 series and with the added weight they did have an update to the 40 series as they had a lot of failures within the first few years.

I hadn't heard any farmer who disliked the two pto's on the back of the red tractors, beat having the oil running out because of not backing up step enough of a slope to have the oil running out the back when changing shafts from 1000 to 540 or vise-versa.

The torque amplifiers when used properly would last 7,000-8,000 hours and longer. When used as a brake for the tractor to slow down they normally ran about 2,500 hours before failure. Many failures happened because of lack of knowledge of proper adjustments as well as the charge pump to the system got weak and kept driving and using the tractor because it still worked some!

I don't know where other then you are more familier with the deere line that they are easier to work on? Pto job on red, four hours, deere split it! Brake job on red four hours, deere split it!

Watch out for those that just had new pumps put in but not a brake job! Older deere's only filters the return not the pick-up on the oil so the first sign of the brake failure is actually the hydraulic pump failure!

 

[RickB]

I have worked in central NY with winter temps down to twenty plus below 0, Many a green farmer with 20 through 40 series that owned a red tractor for the manure spreader because as they would say "they start better unplugged then the green ones plugged in!

Watch the 30 series, they had the same rear end as he 20 series and with the added weight they did have an update to the 40 series as they had a lot of failures within the first few years.

I hadn't heard any farmer who disliked the two pto's on the back of the red tractors, beat having the oil running out because of not backing up step enough of a slope to have the oil running out the back when changing shafts from 1000 to 540 or vise-versa.

The torque amplifiers when used properly would last 7,000-8,000 hours and longer. When used as a brake for the tractor to slow down they normally ran about 2,500 hours before failure. Many failures happened because of lack of knowledge of proper adjustments as well as the charge pump to the system got weak and kept driving and using the tractor because it still worked some!

I don't know where other then you are more familier with the deere line that they are easier to work on? Pto job on red, four hours, deere split it! Brake job on red four hours, deere split it!

Watch out for those that just had new pumps put in but not a brake job! Older deere's only filters the return not the pick-up on the oil so the first sign of the brake failure is actually the hydraulic pump failure!

Kinda hard to tell what brand is close to Art's heart, not?

Actually, pretty much everything he posted is very close to the mark.

The other reason IH tractors were on the manure spreader is because they only had to be driven a half-hour per day! (just kidding, Art!)

 

[Duffster]

The other reason IH tractors were on the manure spreader is because they only had to be driven a half-hour per day!

:laughing:

 

[om21braz]

I myself cannot offer any opinion on this size machine, but here is hopefully some help.
One of the smartest gents' that I know; witnessed him repair everything thing from diesel engines, transmissions, electrical motors, cnc machinery, pneumatic logic circuits, etc., purchases anything he buys based upon it's construction and expected service life. He bought a new tractor for his large row-crop farm in the late 70's. The tractor was a IH 1066. It is still is service, albeit with minimal useage, but without any work other than a few minor repairs and typical maintenance.

 

[JasG]

Kinda hard to tell what brand is close to Art's heart, not?

Actually, pretty much everything he posted is very close to the mark.

The other reason IH tractors were on the manure spreader is because they only had to be driven a half-hour per day! (just kidding, Art!)

Thank you!!

I should have spelled out the easier to maintain part. Parts seem to be easier to get, and basic service is very simple. Not that IH is that much harder, but if you have to wait for parts it takes longer. I think this is only going to get worse for CNH due to they have David Brown, Case, Farmall, IH, CaseIH, Steiger, Ford, NH, etc. All of these lines under 1 company now, dealers can't stock them all all of the time.

The stack shaft I said "I didn't like", meaning my opinion. I didn't like it due to you already have the PTO at an angle and it just seemed like when I turned with a 540 impliment the drive line would chatter or vibrate more than with any tractor I used that the shafts lined up correctly.

 

[jagyzf]

I hadn't heard any farmer who disliked the two pto's on the back of the red tractors, beat having the oil running out because of not backing up step enough of a slope to have the oil running out the back when changing shafts from 1000 to 540 or vise-versa.

The torque amplifiers when used properly would last 7,000-8,000 hours and longer. When used as a brake for the tractor to slow down they normally ran about 2,500 hours before failure. Many failures happened because of lack of knowledge of proper adjustments as well as the charge pump to the system got weak and kept driving and using the tractor because it still worked some!

I go to YTM and Red Power, (I also have freinds with 66 series tractors). This comes up a lot over on these sites. Seems to be a lot of people with IH think the TA's were a weak spot on the old IH's in tillage and other high HP applications they seemed to have a bad rep.

If this is from lack of knowledge (I double all of it is) then this goes back to IH not getting the information out.

 

[JasG]

One more note on tractors be it Deere or IH. This is my opinion but for haying I would stay away from any with a powered front axle. This in the age tractor you are looking at.

Deere used what they called Front Wheel Assist. As long as you used it as an assist it worked OK. By that I mean if you only used it in the spots in the field you needed it and left it off the rest of the time, I had good luck with it. If you used it like a true MFWD, the oil would heat up and the system would have so much slip it wouldn't work. Basically it would pull you deep into mud hole and on the other side the wheels when they hit solid ground would not spin enough to pull you out. Good in theory and works on road graders, combines etc. Not very good on a tractor. These were on 20-40 series Deeres.

IH used at least 2 and I think 3 different axle suppliers, Elwood and Coleman, maybe one other. One system didn't use planetary gears, but a direct drive system. I used one once that the owner told me if I forgot to turn it off and back up, or drove very far down the road with it on it would snap the drive shaft. The 2nd did use planetary axle, from what I have read and again one owners own experience it wasn't very durable. The last system is very similar to what is used today. This system is suppose to be the best, but turning wasn't very good. These systems were on 06, 56, and 66 series tractors as a add on system.
I have driven IH with all 3 axles and if you need it, there better than not having (and better than Deeres), but if you don't not worth it IMO.

Again, just my $.02 on it.

 

[tractorman14]

I would go with the deere and my advice is get a cab you won't regret it and if you're doing round bales get a loader it's a must.

 

[art]

One more note on tractors be it Deere or IH. This is my opinion but for haying I would stay away from any with a powered front axle. This in the age tractor you are looking at.

Deere used what they called Front Wheel Assist. As long as you used it as an assist it worked OK. By that I mean if you only used it in the spots in the field you needed it and left it off the rest of the time, I had good luck with it. If you used it like a true MFWD, the oil would heat up and the system would have so much slip it wouldn't work. Basically it would pull you deep into mud hole and on the other side the wheels when they hit solid ground would not spin enough to pull you out. Good in theory and works on road graders, combines etc. Not very good on a tractor. These were on 20-40 series Deeres.

IH used at least 2 and I think 3 different axle suppliers, Elwood and Coleman, maybe one other. One system didn't use planetary gears, but a direct drive system. I used one once that the owner told me if I forgot to turn it off and back up, or drove very far down the road with it on it would snap the drive shaft. The 2nd did use planetary axle, from what I have read and again one owners own experience it wasn't very durable. The last system is very similar to what is used today. This system is suppose to be the best, but turning wasn't very good. These systems were on 06, 56, and 66 series tractors as a add on system.
I have driven IH with all 3 axles and if you need it, there better than not having (and better than Deeres), but if you don't not worth it IMO.

Again, just my $.02 on it.

On front drives starting with the deere, it was hydraulic and the best thing to do was work with it off!! Then when you got into trouble turn it on and get out of your trouble!!!!
Other wise it just got you into more trouble!!!

The original IH was a coleman and it was great for straight lines and big fields as at the time it only ran about a 30 degree turn! Today many fronts are hitting up to 55 degree turns with the fronts. Elwood was an add-on till the 88 series and then they used it from the factory on some models. They also built some for deeres as well but they were not installer freindly do to the design of the tractor. The larger red ones last used spicer fronts. It is not unusual to find different front ends under tractors depending on the size required. The first mass produced four wheel drive tractor was actually a Same and europe was where they hit in first and all manufacturers have moved from make to the other through the years.

Any tractor no matter what color that has to be backed up or turning the wheels to disengage the front axle has either had tires that are the wrong diameter installed or they need the air adjusted to balance them from front to rear. We get to see this when hours are up into the 10,000 hour plus range from brand switching of the tires do to price or availability. Not the right way to do it but it sure has been done enough!

We have listened through the years to some of the manufacturers spread talk about the lack of parts because of the mergers. We haven't seen any problems with parts availability any more then any other color of tractor. It seems that after about twenty years they all bar none will discontinue slow moving parts!
Truth of it is a dealer that has sold the tractors normally has the parts in stock or they should!!
We get people asking us for parts of makes we don't sell on a regular basis because we are known in the area for our inventory of parts. Are prices are right and even having a big manufacturers wharehouse close by we still were able to get many people going when there dealer couldn't and they often found the parts at far better pricing!!!!

 

[sunup]

well i made my decision and went with a 1066 and a new new holland 5060 baler
thank you all for your input --it was very helpful and help me alot with my decision

SUNUP

 

[AKfish]

I have worked in central NY with winter temps down to twenty plus below 0, Many a green farmer with 20 through 40 series that owned a red tractor for the manure spreader because as they would say "they start better unplugged then the green ones plugged in!

Watch the 30 series, they had the same rear end as he 20 series and with the added weight they did have an update to the 40 series as they had a lot of failures within the first few years.

I hadn't heard any farmer who disliked the two pto's on the back of the red tractors, beat having the oil running out because of not backing up step enough of a slope to have the oil running out the back when changing shafts from 1000 to 540 or vise-versa.

The torque amplifiers when used properly would last 7,000-8,000 hours and longer. When used as a brake for the tractor to slow down they normally ran about 2,500 hours before failure. Many failures happened because of lack of knowledge of proper adjustments as well as the charge pump to the system got weak and kept driving and using the tractor because it still worked some!

I don't know where other then you are more familier with the deere line that they are easier to work on? Pto job on red, four hours, deere split it! Brake job on red four hours, deere split it!

Watch out for those that just had new pumps put in but not a brake job! Older deere's only filters the return not the pick-up on the oil so the first sign of the brake failure is actually the hydraulic pump failure!

Good info here... Most of my early years working tractors has been on red ones. But, I'm one of those that never really understood the T/A, either. Other than: "don't use it - 'cause it don't work right"!

I'm still feeling my way around with my hay making operation, too. I'd like to get my hands on a good 70hp @ pto tractor that doesn't tip the scales at 10,000lbs.

Been looking at the 2640 Deere with Hi-Lo and synchro tranny.

art's comment regarding the hydraulics and the brakes on the early JD's perked my ears up...

'Course that didn't make any more sense to me than the T/A confusion... whatya mean "bad brakes is a first sign that the hydraulic pump is going south"???

AKfish