Building the Retirement Place

[rtimgray]

My vote is that Eddie is the smartest guy ever!

And to that point, I couldn't agree more with exactly what he said.

Good luck and take care.

 

[dave1949]

Something to consider is that traditional framing of home or building is a very well proven method that works very well. Pole barn style building is a very economical way to create a building that is very strong due to the fact that the poles are set in the ground and continuous up the length of the wall. When you set our pole on top of the ground, or on top of a footing of any kind, you lose all that inherent strength you get from the pole being in the ground. You now have a hinge that required additional engineering to overcome it's desire to fall over, or rack. I think perma columns are a solution to a non existent problem that somebody invented to sell to people who do not understand framing. When a building is built, the first thing you do is build up the pad. This has to be above the surrounding ground so water drains away from it. Posts in the ground do not rot from being in the ground, they rot from water sitting at the base of the post. Same thing happens with fences and any other post in the ground. It car rot completely through, but when you pull up the post that's still in the ground, it's in perfect condition. Once you have proper drainage, and then you put a roof over the posts and walls on the posts, they should remain dry and last a hundred years easily. If they get wet, then that's because somebody didn't do something right with draining the water away from the building.

Trying to combine the two building methods results in compromising their inherent strengths. Converting an existing pole barn is one thing, starting out wanting to build one and then putting the money into converting it into a house is going to cost more then traditional stick framing.

Eddie

Good points Eddie, although you have more faith in wood in the ground than I do.

I don't think comparing a standard pole barn to a pole-built house is apples to apples though in terms of structural strength and the forces that act on the poles. A standard pole barn has virtually no interior walls or floors that act as bracing which makes the pole in the ground more important. A home would have at least several walls and perhaps a framed floor or two.

A similar example is a post & beam timber frame home. They are built on a standard flooring deck or slab with a beam attached to the floor and the posts are attached to that beam. Really not much different in concept than standard house wall framing. There are many old timber frame barns that don't have any poles in the ground. What they do have that modern pole barns do not is one or two floors and interior walls and dividers that make the structure more rigid.

 

[bobm6996]

Good advice/thoughts from Eddie and Dave, much appreciated. I have spent a couple days talking with builders who agree with Eddie that the key is good, no great drainage around the building. I do plan to install a perimeter drain all the way around the building and tie it into a 6" drain that was installed a couple months ago that hooks into a county regulated 12" drain. It was installed to support drainage around the building and the perimeter drain that goes around the septic finger system which is required in this area.

I am now sold and convinced the poles in the ground has minimal risk and does in fact make for a strong structure. And I am very much starting to lean toward the raised floor and not the slab. I am not ready at this point in the build to commit 100% to the location of the plumbing, with a crawlspace I can make those decisions after the interior walls start going up and things begin to look more real and not just my drawing on paper. I have designed the interior rooms myself with of course a lot of input from the wife. Since I plan to do a lot of the interior myself and knowing that as I ask for advice/suggestions on this forum will change as we move forward. My primary reason for building this type of home was the flexibility to decide things somewhat on the fly.

So, I would now appreciate input on the commitment to a crawlspace and how I close in the crawlspace to make it tight from critters and weather conditions. We plan at this point in time to cover the exterior in a insulation backed thicker than normal vinyl siding. Possibly a fake stone vinyl on the bottom two or three feet. Need to make sure the crawl is warm in the winter and that it stays dry. Planning to use pea gravel, some type of heavy plastic vapor barrier, what else should I do? Considering a sump pump pit and pump just in case it ever got wet, but the elevation is high enough it should not, but was thinking I could run some pipe in the crawl to the sump pit like they do under a basement, does that make sense?

 

[grainger12002]

In ct we have to permit if we need to sneeze and the fees are just outrageous, when we retire it wont be here in CT

Good luck w your project and keep the posts coming so when can share the experience !!

Stay healthy !!

From Ct

 

[buckeyefarmer]

I know Morton builds pole type commercial buildings on a traditional foundation. They use brackets in the concrete foundation to attach the poles. Don't see why they can't do it above a basement.

 

[ultrarunner]

In ct we have to permit if we need to sneeze and the fees are just outrageous, when we retire it wont be here in CT

Good luck w your project and keep the posts coming so when can share the experience !!

Stay healthy !!

From Ct

Good topic and one I'm very much interested.

Here in the SF Bay Area it can years to idea to finish plus the cost.

Technically to pull and reset a toilet requires a permit just like moving a gas stove or dryer when putting in a new floor covering... or changing out windows... not glass.

 

[farmer2009]

With a pole barn style build and a conditioned crawl space. I would look at adding a footer between the poles and laying 6 inch block. This will allow you to seal off the crawl space in a normal manner then you can treat the outside anyway you want. No worries of rot.

One other option would be to build the crawl space like a wooden basement.

 

[dave1949]

I don't have any good ideas on how to seal the walls at the bottom when using a crawlspace. This IN company builds pole homes on a slab or with a crawlspace:
Indiana Pole Barns


Post frame homes offer excellent value, Typical price for a ready to move in home is $60 - $70 per square foot. We can build 1 or 2 story homes on a slab or crawl space. Roof options include steel and shingles, and exterior options include steel, vinyl, wood and brick.

You could call or visit them and find out what they do around a crawlspace. You are legitimately planning on building a pole home and you owe it to yourself to check out the various builders and techniques in any case.

 

[rtimgray]

My only further recommendation would be to really try to do more up-front planning, as far as interior walls, etc. go. I know this is a tough thing to visualize, but it can same massive amounts of headaches (and dollars) down the road.

I draw a lot of houseplans for people, and I understand that some folks (and I will say that it seems to be more so the ladies rather than the gentlemen, sexist as that may be) have a hard time understanding how the size of a room on a drawing relates to the size of a room in real life. It usually involves taking a tape measure and walking around a existing house and showing how big each room is. I've been along for this exercise a couple of times and it can be a real eye-opener.

By no means will this take away any changes that are desired going forward, but in this case an ounce of prevention is usually worth a couple of pounds of cure.

Good luck and take care.

 

[BKBrown]

I admit that I have not read the entire thread - so - If things have already been mentioned - ignore them. I designed our home. Remember that everyone gets older and plan on handicap access for walkways (hallways) and bathrooms. Use ramps instead of stairs when it is possible - stairs should have low risers. More closets and cabinets than you think you will need. Garage is better than leaving equipment / vehicles outside - attached garage is best. Floor trusses instead of joists makes wiring and plumbing easy. We did hip roof so that there are no gables to take care of and wind to catch. I hate painting so our interior is all T&G walls and ceiling. Laundry on main floor.