Solar power & Wind Power for residental use

[SirReal63]

A non pressure tank? So another pump is required to provide pressurized water ?
That would be 1.75 gallons per minute? there are times when my pump with 12gpm at 60psi is not enough here.

Correct, we use a holding tank with a separate pump to pressurize the system. At best the solar panels only gets about 6 hours of good light so about 5-6 gpm from 400', with actual head about 380' or so. I had my doubts that a solar powered pump would be able to do the job and I am happy to say it can.

This little Lorentz pump...

Produces this at 400'...

Holding tank and pressure tank.

Solar Panels

It is a pretty nice little setup, even without grid power we have water and the system can be pressurized via generator. Future plan is another solar pump with batteries for pressure. We have kept garden watered, grass watered and orchard watered and the tank always remains full.

 

[truckdiagnostics]

Well you said it "Dumb question". I am NOT meaning that to be adverse to you personally . But here is my take on it. The energy cost of producing anything is built into the retail price that is paid for that item, so trying to figure it separately is really just an exercise that does not provide useful information. Or to take a different approach, spend your time measuring the energy cost of every item, ie , should you eat any food ? because the energy cost of producing might exceed the energy value to your body of the food eaten ?? etc. I would believe that most solar manufacturers do use solar as part of their production energy, why would they not do that. Hope you had a great Christmas. It was 16 degrees here high today, and yes we did use energy to keep warm etc.

Yes, but solar is pro porting to be "lowing" the carbon footprint. So, stated this way/again, "is solar really lowering the carbon foot print, when it CAN NOT MAKE ENOUGH ENERGY TO PRODUCE ITS SELF" The energy you use to get coal oil, gas, to the point of being a usable energy is a net gain. Not to mention the solar panels are made in third world countries that are not known for there clean use of fossil fuels. Yes the may use a solar panel to power part of there production, like to see them try it with out any fossil fuels to help melt all that sand. Key word part.

 

[sodamo]

Ah yes, location, location, location. Sad to say, but those maps only tell part of the story. Being at 1100ft elevation, we never get anywhere near the suggested 5 hours of productive sun. My neighbor down the hill does significantly better. This time of year I produce approx 1.6 kW per kW of panel. In November I had 2 days back to back of less than 10kw daily production. In non rainy season I can get 3-4kw/panel kW average. Before adding the hot tub generator use averaged about 1 Hr/day, now about 2/day. I did add another 4K of PV to help. I keep temp down to 95° but still a major draw this time of year. This coming year, I hope to take a good look at my panel mounting and tweak the angles anticipating better production. I keep hoping that I run across an inexpensive tool or method that would facilitate finding optimal angle at current orientation. My charge controllers could take some additional PV, so might do that in future, especially if fuel costs go back up.

As for the taxes/rebates with some people thinking they helped pay for my system, I have some different thoughts I may post later.

_NSObserverList(0x167f5f80) of 1 observers of <_UITouchForceObservable: 0x179df1c0>: (
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)

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Driving in SD a few months ago I saw the pieces of a wind tower in transit. Looking at them in place one does not get an idea of how big those things are. As for the lack of "spinning" they might be locked for maintenance which I understand is frequent and expensive. I've seen some studies for around here and they might make sense in some spots like off the shore of Lake Michigan. Unfortunately nobody wants to see them there (nimby). There is huge array outside of Indianapolis and I guess it might make sense there. Rockford has a smaller array also. But to an earlier point their economics are heavily dependent on subsidies.

Elsewhere on the internet, a guy who I talk with is involved in teaching engineers how to frack for the last 40 years (so consider the source biased against) shared a study that giant windmills are a net loss considering the energy required to build, transport, erect, and maintain them. I didn't save the link.

 

[JCByrd24]

Yes, but solar is pro porting to be "lowing" the carbon footprint. So, stated this way/again, "is solar really lowering the carbon foot print, when it CAN NOT MAKE ENOUGH ENERGY TO PRODUCE ITS SELF" The energy you use to get coal oil, gas, to the point of being a usable energy is a net gain. Not to mention the solar panels are made in third world countries that are not known for there clean use of fossil fuels. Yes the may use a solar panel to power part of there production, like to see them try it with out any fossil fuels to help melt all that sand. Key word part.

Terry absolutely had it right. The energy required to produce and deliver anything is rolled into the retail price unless subsidized, which is a whole separate topic. At the end of the day it's a simple economics problem whether you are looking at wind, solar, coal , upgrading windows/insulation or a water heater or boiler. You have no problem with making glass to put in your house, TV, or tractor cab and yet somehow making glass for a solar panel is not green enough for you? My 3.8 kW grid tied solar system cost me $6k to install myself and will pay for itself in 7-10 years depending on energy prices here in Maine, which have now dropped 2 years in a row unfortunately for me. But they were predicted to rise 25% in 2015 and I was tired of having no say in that. After that I will have free power. Coal, oil, gas etc can be cheap, it is now, but it will never be free. And sure there will be a little maintenance cost on my system 10 years from now, but ill still be way ahead. And in terms of the environment way way ahead. On the flip side I'm glad I'm tied to the grid so I don't have to own batteries and can run all of my larger tools with no thought about draining a battery bank. I'm also not about to trade my premium burning straight 6 BMW for an electric car. I'm an engineer not a tree hugger. Solar panels make sense.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Terry absolutely had it right. The energy required to produce and deliver anything is rolled into the retail price unless subsidized, which is a whole separate topic. At the end of the day it's a simple economics problem whether you are looking at wind, solar, coal , upgrading windows/insulation or a water heater or boiler. You have no problem with making glass to put in your house, TV, or tractor cab and yet somehow making glass for a solar panel is not green enough for you? My 3.8 kW grid tied solar system cost me $6k to install myself and will pay for itself in 7-10 years depending on energy prices here in Maine, which have now dropped 2 years in a row unfortunately for me. But they were predicted to rise 25% in 2015 and I was tired of having no say in that. After that I will have free power. Coal, oil, gas etc can be cheap, it is now, but it will never be free. And sure there will be a little maintenance cost on my system 10 years from now, but ill still be way ahead. And in terms of the environment way way ahead. On the flip side I'm glad I'm tied to the grid so I don't have to own batteries and can run all of my larger tools with no thought about draining a battery bank. I'm also not about to trade my premium burning straight 6 BMW for an electric car. I'm an engineer not a tree hugger. Solar panels make sense.

If you're interested, as a neophyte, I'm really interested in learning how you did it and a component list!

 

[JCByrd24]

Elsewhere on the internet, a guy who I talk with is involved in teaching engineers how to frack for the last 40 years (so consider the source biased against) shared a study that giant windmills are a net loss considering the energy required to build, transport, erect, and maintain them. I didn't save the link.

Consider the source. Oil industry. Rich people and businesses tend not to throw their money away. If the economics didn't work they (windmills) wouldnt exist. If you think a lot goes into making a wind mill think about what goes into producing and delivering fuel and also producing the equipment that turns that fuel into another form of energy. I saw a similar quote recently. Turns out it was taken out of context and the real quote said a windmill could produce all its imbedded energy in as little as 3 months.

 

[JCByrd24]

If you're interested, as a neophyte, I'm really interested in learning how you did it and a component list!

Absolutely. Started with a Solar Edge/ Solar World kit from wholesalesolar.com. A couple hundred in ground wire, misc wiring and conduit and that was it. I'm in and airport now but PM me and I'll help you out when I get home.

 

[truckdiagnostics]

Terry absolutely had it right. The energy required to produce and deliver anything is rolled into the retail price unless subsidized, which is a whole separate topic. At the end of the day it's a simple economics problem whether you are looking at wind, solar, coal , upgrading windows/insulation or a water heater or boiler. You have no problem with making glass to put in your house, TV, or tractor cab and yet somehow making glass for a solar panel is not green enough for you? My 3.8 kW grid tied solar system cost me $6k to install myself and will pay for itself in 7-10 years depending on energy prices here in Maine, which have now dropped 2 years in a row unfortunately for me. But they were predicted to rise 25% in 2015 and I was tired of having no say in that. After that I will have free power. Coal, oil, gas etc can be cheap, it is now, but it will never be free. And sure there will be a little maintenance cost on my system 10 years from now, but ill still be way ahead. And in terms of the environment way way ahead. On the flip side I'm glad I'm tied to the grid so I don't have to own batteries and can run all of my larger tools with no thought about draining a battery bank. I'm also not about to trade my premium burning straight 6 BMW for an electric car. I'm an engineer not a tree hugger. Solar panels make sense.

Don't agree but high jacking this post over this debate is not right and I was out of line for sticking my two cents in, when I did. You are looking a "price." I am actually looking at the environmental impact. It is a saving now, here in this country. In this country it is, "saving the environment" I just do not see the net gain, when you have a third world country, which has some of the most inefficient use of fossil fuels, making something, that pro ports to be saving the environment, by using more energy then it is ever going to save. It is saving, Money i will agree, but are they/we really using less energy and saving the environment? Also, making personal references as you did above is a little out of place..."You have no problem with making glass to put in your house, TV, or tractor cab and yet somehow making glass for a solar panel is not green enough for you?" We can agree to disagree. If I was out of line in any way I apologize.

 

[ironnut]

Solar panels are selling for a $1/watt or less so just say $250 for 250 watt panel. I have 12 250 watt panels. Yesterday I got 17.5 kw-hrs. 17.5 divided by 12 is 1.5 kw-hrs per panel for that day. Based on the averages suggested for the panels I bought, 1.5 kw-hrs per day average through a year seems reasonable. 1.5 kw-hrs/day times 365 days is 548 kw-hrs/year. At $0.10/ kw-hr that is $54.8 per year that I didn't have to pay for power. Assume the energy cost for producing the panel is 50% of the retail cost, than $250/2=$125/$54.8 per year=2.28 years to pay the energy debt. After the 2 plus years it has paid its energy debt and continues on the positive side of reducing the carbon foot print, hopefully for another 20 plus years.

gordon