Buying Advice 2501 or 3301--Questions, Questions, Questions

[Trailfarmer]

I'll try to keep this less than novel length:

Looking at L2501 or 3301
Bought almost new B2650 with FEL 18 months ago to replace 40 year old, much loved DT without FEL.
The B has been a good, but not great tractor for me--not as heavy duty as expected and I've been careful with it so as not to tear it up.
Want more lifting power, bigger front tires, and just "more"--
I've read a lot of threads here so am aware of the "emissions issues" and "buy more if you can"
Used the "Build My Kubota" page to compare models


On to the questions--appreciate any an all opinions\thoughts\guidance:

-2501 incentives expire soon(!), anyone have any idea\guesses what the next round of incentives will be?

-Weighted tires vs. ballast box: used to be a tire guy, but research has me leaning toward ballast box. Around here I can get ballast box for much less than getting tires filled (a hopefully one-time cost I know)

-QA bucket vs. standard: Local dealer said QA setup reduces amount of weight tractor can lift by 300lb and QA pallet forks even more so. Now considering standard bucket and bolt on forks Didn't plan to remove bucket often and would hate to lose lifting capacity--want to move dirt, logs, etc regularly. QA setup is also $600 more.

-Prices.....
Called Barlow and 2 nearby dealers
Barlow--600 for delivery unless he has another to my area
Local dealer 1--actually pretty competitive with Barlow, which surprised me
Local dealer 2--supposed to call tomorrow with prices
Local dealers charge tax and Barlow wouldn't, but my state now asks on tax forms about large purchases from out of state and I won't lie about it.
Check Craigslist often and haven't seen anything of interest in last few weeks.

Planning to finance as cash prices aren't a whole lot less--B almost paid for so will roll money from sale of it onto new tractor.
Trying to decide before end of month at this point, but will wait if things don't feel right.

Thanks in advance for the help

 

[RickB]

If you think QA forks are a liability to lift capacity you don’t understand what bolting/chaining/clamping forks onto a bucket will do to capacity. It will cripple the capacity. Get the QA bucket and forks. If that won’t lift what you need to lift, buy a bigger tractor and get QA forks and bucket for it.
The QA device might be a $600 option, but it will cost you $1000 or more to sell or trade a loader without it because NOBODY is going to want a loader less QA.

 

[Einthewoods]

If you are going to be using the FEL, filled tires and ballast are a must in my humble opinion. I have mine filled and am always having some ballast on and will soon build a good ballast box.

QA for sure as RickB said.

I have a 3301 and love it. If I were to do it again, I might consider even going bigger, though mainly for better FEL power. Being my first tractor I had too high of expectations for the FEL. I know better now and know what it can and can't do and just work around it.

 

[jeff9366]

B2650 has a bare tractor weight of 2,293 pounds. Tractor has deLuxe kit.

L2501/3301 has a bare tractor weight of 2,700 pounds. Relatively Spartan kit.

For most tractor tasks greater chassis weight is more important than tractor horsepower. For novice tractor shoppers the fundamental importance of tractor WEIGHT is difficult to comprehend. In subcompact and compact tractor categories it requires a 50% increase in bare tractor weight before you notice a significant tractor capability increase. It takes a 100% increase in bare tractor weight to elicit MY-OH-MY!

I suspect you will be dissatisfied with an L2501 or L3301.

Consider a $27,000 L3560, the lightest Kubota Grand L.
L3560 has a bare tractor weight of 3,500 pounds and deLuxe kit in a package only slightly larger than L2501/3301.

Pay once, cry once.


VIDEOS: Kubota Standard L-Series. L251 L331 L391 L471 features and operation. - YouTube

Kubota Standard L Series VS. Grand L Series - YouTube

 

[RickB]

B2650 has a bare tractor weight of 2,293 pounds. Tractor has deLuxe kit.

L2501/3301 has a bare tractor weight of 2,700 pounds. Relatively Spartan kit.

For most tractor tasks greater chassis weight is more important than tractor horsepower. For novice tractor shoppers the fundamental importance of tractor WEIGHT is difficult to comprehend. In subcompact and compact tractor categories it requires a 50% increase in bare tractor weight before you notice a significant tractor capability increase. It takes a 100% increase in bare tractor weight to elicit MY-OH-MY!

I suspect you will be dissatisfied with an L2501 or L3301.

Consider an L3560, the lightest Kubota Grand L.
L3560 has a bare tractor weight of 3,500 pounds and deLuxe kit.

Pay once, cry once.

I don’t disagree.

 

[jeff9366]

-QA bucket vs. standard: Local dealer said QA setup reduces amount of weight tractor can lift by 300lb and QA pallet forks even more so. Now considering standard bucket and bolt on forks Didn't plan to remove bucket often and would hate to lose lifting capacity--want to move dirt, logs, etc regularly. QA setup is also $600.

When using clamp on pallet forks the bucket is dead weight, detracting from payload. Bucket 250 pounds to 300 pounds plus forks 100 pounds = 400 pounds.

SSQA pallet forks attach directly to the FEL, eliminating the bucket. Weights vary from 250 to 350 pounds, depending on weight/lift capacity of forks.
Lift capacity of SSQA forks is equal to or greater than clamp on forks.
SSAQ pallet forks have an operator protecting top guard as part of the frame, an important safety feature.
Spend the $600.

These are the 36" length, 309 pound, SSQA Pallet Forks I use on my Kubota L3560:
Construction Attachments, XTreme Duty, Skid Steer, Skidsteer, CAL, Standard Frame, Regular Lift, Pallet Forks 1PF, Universal Skid Steer Quick Attach

This HD SSQA Pallet Fork will not distort unless 9,000 pounds of force is applied. I like a little reserve.

 

[jeff9366]

-Weighted tires vs. ballast box: used to be a tire guy, but research has me leaning toward ballast box. Around here I can get ballast box for much less than getting tires filled (a hopefully one-time cost I know)

There are two main reasons to ballast rear tires.
1. increase rear tire traction
2. lower tractor center-of-gravity for work on hills

The L2501, like my L3560, has modest engine power relative to weight. Not enough power to break rear wheel traction under most conditions. If light ground contact implements are purchased, rather than heavy ground contact implements, rear tire ballast may be necessary even for an L2501 but I know YOU will not waste money on light, marginally effective ground contact implements.

If you ballast L2501 rear tires for work on hills you may find you lack power to climb with a heavy implement mounted on the Three Point Hitch. (depending, depending)
If you intend to work on hills and prudently decide to load rear tires, spend the additional money for L3301.

If I were to order a Kubota L6060, 4,023 pounds bare tractor, 62-horsepower gross, a high power-to-weight ratio, I would include loaded rear tires (probably radial tractor tires) and possibly cast iron wheels weights to make sure I had enough traction to get that 62-horsepower to the ground.

I have owned three tractors. None have loaded tires.

People often buy SUBCOMPACT tractors, like Kubota BX, primarily for lawn mowing, plus a little landscaping work with the FEL in the suburbs. Garage space is often tight. In this scenario where no additional Three Point Hitch implements are likely a ultra compact ballast box, slotted for garden tools, makes sense.

For an L2501/3301 or L3560 order an implement for Three Point Hitch counterbalance. Box Blade is most frequent choice. I often moont a Cultipacker, which is very compact in size, yet heavy.

LEVERAGE makes a 600 pound counterbalance implement protruding 48" to the rear of tractor more effective counterbalance than 600 pound implement protruding 30".

 

[jeff9366]

Looking at L2501 or 3301

Want more lifting power, bigger front tires, and just "more"--

Thanks in advance for the help.

Consider the Kubota MX series. Buy enough tractor.

VIDEO: Kubota Grand L Series VS. Kubota MX Series - YouTube

 

[crashz]

I agree with Jeff with everything except post #7. The 2501 needs tire ballast and 3pt ballast. You won't run out of power even on ridiculous hills and even with loaded tires and a heavy implement. They easily spin loaded tires in low or medium. Plenty of traction power.

But... If you run heavy implements that draw lots of PTO horsepower, the upgrade to a 3301 or 3901 is worthwhile. I've run out of power mowing heavy fields (grass over 6ft tall) stupidly using my 6ft finish mower. That's a big mower, and not all all applicable to the terrain. But it was a small patch and I got through. Its the only time I wanted more power.

To go back to the weight issue, Jeff is on point. The standard L series is light. Strong, and even with ballast, too light. If you mow your lawn (like I do) that's an advantage. But I doubt you'll be impressed. I suggest you get some seat time on them, the Grand L's and the MX.

 

[Fallon]

The only difference between a L2501 & L3301 (L3901 or my old L3200 too)is emissions & HP. Both will do the same work & pull the same load. More HP will just go faster.

No matter if you have loaded tires or not, you need lots of ballast on the 3pt. My L3200 would get very sketchy at max lift with lots of ballast & loaded R4s.

The SSQA is very worthwhile. I use pallet forks more than a bucket.

A L3560 is double the weight of an economy machine. It will lift & pull more. But at about the HP of a L3301, it has a worse power to weight ratio. My L4060 is tapped out on power on hills roading or mowing.

The grands are a lit more tractor. More weight, better transmissions (2 speed HST+ ontop of the same clunky 3 speed unsynchronized gearbox or GST). Options for a cab & more hydraulics.

My only regret in upgrading from my L3200 to my L4060 was not being able to afford more HP as I do a lot of roading & mowing.

 

[jeff9366]

No matter if you have loaded tires or not, you need lots of ballast on the 3pt. My L3200 would get very sketchy at max lift with lots of ballast & loaded R4s.

The L2501, like my L3560, has modest engine power relative to weight. Not enough power to break rear wheel traction under most conditions. If light ground contact implements are purchased, rather than heavy ground contact implements, rear tire ballast may be necessary even for an L2501 but I know YOU will not waste money on light, marginally effective ground contact implements.

I have owned three tractors. None have loaded tires.

Few new to tractors realize how much implement weight is transferred to tractor tires, front and rear, through the Three Point Hitch. Fairly obviously, when a mounted implement is raised entirely off the ground, 100% of the implement weight is transferred to the tractor tires.

When implements are drawn by the tractor in ground contact, implement weight transfer to tractor wheels is on the order of 40%; more transiently. Supplying ample implement weight for tractor traction is an important reason to purchase heavy ground contact implements, not light ones. Ballasted rear tires can compensate for light implements only a limited amount.

When Harry Ferguson brought two prototype Three Point Hitch tractors to Dearborn, Michigan from England, to demonstrate to Henry Ford in 1938, Ford retained one of the two for examination and as a pattern. Ford's engineers were astounded at the traction the Three Point Hitch provided in unitizing the tractor and implements, relative to existing tractors, including two generations of earlier Ford tractors. From Ferguson's prototype the Ford 8N was developed with few changes, all related to incorporating existing Ford engine and transmission components.

I buy heavy implements. My last two Kubotas have been kitted with air filled R4/industrial tires. I seldom want for traction.Today I was using my 60"/630 pound Rollover Box Blade to clear ashes and dirt from our community burn pit. Full Box Blade draws of wet sand were up a 25' long, steep pit exit. I was in HST/PLUS, LOW/LOW with differential locked, yielding continuous traction with some tire slip.


Tractor "packages" are notorious for being composed of light, marginally effective, ground contact implements.


Photo is not from today. My new Catahoola puppy chewed up my digital camera last week. It is the same burn pit, tractor and Rollover Box Blade during a prior clean out.

 

[Fallon]

Few new to tractors realize how much implement weight is transferred to tractor tires, front and rear, through the Three Point Hitch. Fairly obviously, when implement is raised entirely off the ground, 100% of the implement weight is transferred to the tractor tires.

Yup... Fat kid on a teter totter... You wand him sitting behind the beefy solid axle, not the small, complex, expensive one that will roll to the side.

The economy Ls suffer more than most. With lots of ballast a big lift on my L3200s loader was sketchy. On the new L4060 a big lift on the loader with minimal ballast is extremely solid & stable. A machine that's double the weight is unsurprisingly a lot more stable.

 

[SDT]

B2650 has a bare tractor weight of 2,293 pounds. Tractor has deLuxe kit.

L2501/3301 has a bare tractor weight of 2,700 pounds. Relatively Spartan kit.

For most tractor tasks greater chassis weight is more important than tractor horsepower. For novice tractor shoppers the fundamental importance of tractor WEIGHT is difficult to comprehend. In subcompact and compact tractor categories it requires a 50% increase in bare tractor weight before you notice a significant tractor capability increase. It takes a 100% increase in bare tractor weight to elicit MY-OH-MY!

I suspect you will be dissatisfied with an L2501 or L3301.

Consider a $27,000 L3560, the lightest Kubota Grand L.
L3560 has a bare tractor weight of 3,500 pounds and deLuxe kit in a package only slightly larger than L2501/3301.

Pay once, cry once.


VIDEOS: Kubota Standard L-Series. L251 L331 L391 L471 features and operation. - YouTube

Kubota Standard L Series VS. Grand L Series - YouTube

Actually, the B2650 HSD has a tractor only weight of 1,786 lbs., the B3350 a bit more at 1,896 lbs.

The L2501HST has a tractor only weight of 2,623 lbs.

Both have PTO HP of 19-19.5, which is marginal.

It all depends upon what one wishes to do and how fast one wishes to do it.

SDT

 

[SDT]

I'll try to keep this less than novel length:

Looking at L2501 or 3301
Bought almost new B2650 with FEL 18 months ago to replace 40 year old, much loved DT without FEL.
The B has been a good, but not great tractor for me--not as heavy duty as expected and I've been careful with it so as not to tear it up.
Want more lifting power, bigger front tires, and just "more"--
I've read a lot of threads here so am aware of the "emissions issues" and "buy more if you can"
Used the "Build My Kubota" page to compare models


On to the questions--appreciate any an all opinions\thoughts\guidance:

-2501 incentives expire soon(!), anyone have any idea\guesses what the next round of incentives will be?

-Weighted tires vs. ballast box: used to be a tire guy, but research has me leaning toward ballast box. Around here I can get ballast box for much less than getting tires filled (a hopefully one-time cost I know)

-QA bucket vs. standard: Local dealer said QA setup reduces amount of weight tractor can lift by 300lb and QA pallet forks even more so. Now considering standard bucket and bolt on forks Didn't plan to remove bucket often and would hate to lose lifting capacity--want to move dirt, logs, etc regularly. QA setup is also $600 more.

-Prices.....
Called Barlow and 2 nearby dealers
Barlow--600 for delivery unless he has another to my area
Local dealer 1--actually pretty competitive with Barlow, which surprised me
Local dealer 2--supposed to call tomorrow with prices
Local dealers charge tax and Barlow wouldn't, but my state now asks on tax forms about large purchases from out of state and I won't lie about it.
Check Craigslist often and haven't seen anything of interest in last few weeks.

Planning to finance as cash prices aren't a whole lot less--B almost paid for so will roll money from sale of it onto new tractor.
Trying to decide before end of month at this point, but will wait if things don't feel right.

Thanks in advance for the help

No one(aside from some Kubota employees) knows what the July 1 incentives will be. That said, Kubota has been aggressively pushing the L2501 recently and have sold many. I no longer see them sitting on dealer lots. I would not be surprised if the incentives on this model are reduced.

Ballast is just about essential for any FEL work aside from playing around, even with FWA. Three point mounted ballast is far more effective than is liquid ballast. I change/repair my own tires and NEVER use liquid ballast. Rather I have two ballast boxes filled with bagged playground sand from Lowes. I use a large ballast box with my L6060 and M9960 and a small ballast box with my B3350. A ballast box takes up little space and can be filled appropriately to the task at hand.

SDT

 

[jeff9366]

Actually, the B2650 HSD has a tractor only weight of 1,786 lbs., the B3350 a bit more at 1,896 lbs.

SDT: You are correct.

I listed B2650 weight from page 43 of Kubota's 2017 Full Line Brochure. On further examination my number of 2,293 pounds is for the CAB model not the open station model. The open station B2650 is on page 39 and its spec weight is 1,786 pounds.

 

[jeff9366]

L2501 incentives expire soon(!), anyone have any idea\guesses what the next round of incentives will be?

VIDEO: HOW HIGH WILL PRICES CLIMB? - TMT - YouTube

 

[Trailfarmer]

Thanks for all the info.....

I might be misreading tractordata info but it looks like my B2650 should lift slightly more than the 2501/3301--can that be right?
Difficult for me to find direct weight numbers but maybe I'm not looking in the right place.

As it happens, there is a 2015 3560Grand L with 60 hours on it about 2.5 hours from my place. LA805 loader (says that's an upgrade), cruise (don't know if that's standard for a Grand), rear remote, says mostly used for mowing. Pics look pretty clean.

Asking $23K.

Will the weight of that thing be an issue for mowing the yard? I do a couple of acres--it's a farm yard, nothing fancy, but don't want to tear stuff up.

 

[Fallon]

Thanks for all the info.....

I might be misreading tractordata info but it looks like my B2650 should lift slightly more than the 2501/3301--can that be right?
Difficult for me to find direct weight numbers but maybe I'm not looking in the right place.

As it happens, there is a 2015 3560Grand L with 60 hours on it about 2.5 hours from my place. LA805 loader (says that's an upgrade), cruise (don't know if that's standard for a Grand), rear remote, says mostly used for mowing. Pics look pretty clean.

Asking $23K.

Will the weight of that thing be an issue for mowing the yard? I do a couple of acres--it's a farm yard, nothing fancy, but don't want to tear stuff up.

An economy L3xxx or L2501 will lift "1,200lbs" hay bales on SSQA forks if you can keep the back end on the ground. No way any B will be able to come close to matching that. Unless you compare loader capacity to 3pt capacity or something.

There are 3 loaders available on the Grands, the big loader is only available on the L4760 or bigger. I thought the small loader was the only option on the L3560, but you might be able to spec the medium one (will lift a 1850lbs tagged pallet on forks). For Kubota loaders, the model number is the lift capacity in kilograms more or less.

Cruise is standard on the Grands, don't think the remote is.

I mow pastures & fields with my L4060, cab, loader & loaded R4s take it to 5k lbs or so. Mower is another 1,700lbs. I tear stuff up noticeably if I leave it in 4wd, but not much in 2wd. Iffy if you are trying to mow lawn or turf, but fine for pasture, field mowing. All the Grands weigh within a few hundred lbs of each other.

$23k is good for 60 hours. Oddly low hours, but not suspicious. Check the filters. 2 of the 3 should be not & not grey, assuming its a HST. But hard to be to far out of maintenance at only 60 hours.

 

[RickB]

At 60 hours I wouldn’t make a big deal out of whether it had been serviced or not. I’d almost prefer it not to be serviced, then I could do it and know what and how was done.

 

[jeff9366]

There is a 2015 3560Grand L with 60 hours on it about 2.5 hours from my place. LA805 loader (says that's an upgrade), cruise (don't know if that's standard for a Grand), rear remote, says mostly used for mowing. Pics look pretty clean.

Asking $23K.

Will the weight of that thing be an issue for mowing the yard? I do a couple of acres--it's a farm yard, nothing fancy, but don't want to tear stuff up.

FEL LA555 is first option, FEL LA805, which I have, second option.

Cruise control is standard on Grand Ls.

Remotes are expensive options, not standard.

I cross residential lawns daily with my L3560. No damage or lawn imprint in 2-WD with R4/industrial tires inflated with air.
My soil is rapid draining sandy-loam. NEVER have MUD.