3500 truck needs CDL?

[RedNeckRacin]

Im in Pa. I was told by dot that if our not making any money as long as your truck and trailer don't go over the 26001 your fine. They only look at 2 things trucks GVWR and trailer GVWR. In my case truck 11,500 trailer 14,000 put me at 25,500 under the 26001. One thing you will need if over 17,000p is a medical card. Know they told me if Im making one penny from moving my stuff around I would Need a CDL. Problem is even single axle truck like the ram 3500 crew long bed GVWR is 12,300, So with the trailer I have I would need to sell them and get new ones and derate them under the 14,000. Kinda of suck the big 3 are upping GVWR.

You are correct sir. Don't forget "for profit" is very broad and can be interpreted to include trophies or racing purses.

 

[LD1]

Yes you can take the test with that setup but there wi be restrictions on your license. I.e. No air brake endorsement. In pa, I heard rumors that due to all the hot shot dually gn setups that there was going to be a fifth wheel restriction as well as an automatic transmission restriction depending on what you took the driving test in.

Seems maybe they are stating to understand how insane it is to require the same license class for a 80k semi, and a 1-ton with a GN.

Would that 5th wheel restriction eliminate them from towing a camper? What if they took the test with a 5th wheel camper?

 

[RedNeckRacin]

No.

The combo only needs to be over 26k. Not just the truck.

If the combo is over 26k, and the trailer is under 10k.....(IE a ford F550 w/19,500gvw and a 7k trailer)....Class B

If the combo is over 26k and the trailer is over 10k.....(IE: 1-ton w/13k gvw and 14k trailer)....class A.

If there is no trailer to tow, then you only worry if the truck alone is over 26k....and if it is ....Class B

We may get this straightened out yet! Now if only all the dam states would agree on things. It would really muddy the water if we threw in some hazmat or fuel tax issues! I don't even claim to have a good grasp on that stuff.

 

[Tomtint]

I have a 16K GVW F450 and 9999 GVW trailers. No CDL needed. However if I pull a 10001 GVW trailer behind a 7k GVW F150... I need a CDL.

 

[LD1]

I have a 16K GVW F450 and 9999 GVW trailers. No CDL needed. However if I pull a 10001 GVW trailer behind a 7k GVW F150... I need a CDL.

WHY. Are you engaging in commerce/towing for profit.

And even if you are......

Looks like Massachusetts follows the fed.

 

[Retiredguy2]

Has anyone following this thread ever had to have their vehicle weighed at the request of a law enforcement officer? Reason I inquire is because my dad worked for the Michigan highway department back during 1962-1967 and much of his job was being a roving state weigh master. He told us kids how much he hated getting the portable scales out of the trunk of his official car to weigh a suspected overweight truck.

 

[DK35vince]

Has anyone following this thread ever had to have their vehicle weighed at the request of a law enforcement officer? Reason I inquire is because my dad worked for the Michigan highway department back during 1962-1967 and much of his job was being a roving state weigh master. He told us kids how much he hated getting the portable scales out of the trunk of his official car to weigh a suspected overweight truck.

Yes, I've been on the portable scales several times.

 

[downsizingnow48]

Only if you go over 26k combined. The CDL weights are the same in every state. Class A is over 26k gross combined with a trailer of more than 10k Class B is over 26k gross and/or with a trailer under 10k In NC, If you have a 12k GVWR truck, and a 12k trailer, you need nothing other than your standard license. Same as all other states

Not in California. Any trailer over 10k need CDL. Unless it is RV then you can tow anything. The equipment and dump trailer dealer I bought my dump trailer from orders in 14k dump trailers derated to 9990lbs just for that reason.

 

[LD1]

Not in California. Any trailer over 10k need CDL. Unless it is RV then you can tow anything. The equipment and dump trailer dealer I bought my dump trailer from orders in 14k dump trailers derated to 9990lbs just for that reason.

You live in a nanny state. Most other states just follow the feds restrictions. Which are exactly as I have stated. I am not gonna look up all 50 states and see if that add additional restrictions on top of feds restrictions.

Here what I can find for CA

A commercial vehicle is a motor vehicle or combination used for hire to transport passengers or property or which:

Has a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,001 pounds or more
Is designed, used, or maintained for carrying more than 10 passengers, including the driver
Tows a vehicle or trailer, which has a GVWR of 10,001 pounds or more
Transports hazardous materials, which requires placards
Tows any combination of two trailers or vehicle and trailer

Si it seems that CA lowers the passenger # down from 16 to 10, and throws in that 10k trailer thing....whereas the fed only uses +/-10k in determining between classes.

But in either case.....the way I read the first line in red is the same thing I have been saying. Only need a CDL if working for hire. Yet you say ANY trailer over 10k.........but the way its worded would lead me to believe that it doesnt apply to personal trailers, hauling your personal stuff not for hire.

 

[tcartwri]

You are correct sir. Don't forget "for profit" is very broad and can be interpreted to include trophies or racing purses.

In Ontario they have a blurb stating that if you're hauling any piece of equipment "that is normally used in commerce" they can deem you commercial. I routinely move my tractor between properties and I'm just waiting for that conversation on the side of the road.

 

[downsizingnow48]

LD1 it is a nanny state for sure. Goes beyond fed regs in lots of areas including trailer towing.

 

[bdog]

No.

The combo only needs to be over 26k. Not just the truck.

If the combo is over 26k, and the trailer is under 10k.....(IE a ford F550 w/19,500gvw and a 7k trailer)....Class B

If the combo is over 26k and the trailer is over 10k.....(IE: 1-ton w/13k gvw and 14k trailer)....class A.

If there is no trailer to tow, then you only worry if the truck alone is over 26k....and if it is ....Class B

No LD1 - Rock knocker is correct. Read the class definions very carefully. Class A is specifically defined as a combo over 26k where the trailer is over 10k. Class B is very specifically defined as a single vehicle with a GVWR over 26k by itself or towing a trailer with a GVWR under 10k. Your example of a 19.5k 550 pulling a trailer with a 7k trailer is wrong. You can drive that with a class C. It can't fall in class A because the trailer is under 10k and it can't fall in class b because the power unit is not over 26.

 

[Rock knocker]

No LD1 - Rock knocker is correct. Read the class definions very carefully. Class A is specifically defined as a combo over 26k where the trailer is over 10k. Class B is very specifically defined as a single vehicle with a GVWR over 26k by itself or towing a trailer with a GVWR under 10k. Your example of a 19.5k 550 pulling a trailer with a 7k trailer is wrong. You can drive that with a class C. It can't fall in class A because the trailer is under 10k and it can't fall in class b because the power unit is not over 26.

Yea, I'm right.

Excepting California, the Fed rules applies.

Here is the flow chart from the NC CDL handbook (page 1-1). Most state have a similar flow chart.

I have annointed it for my hypothetical 26K truck and 10K trailer. The same qould apply for LD's 19.5K truck and 7K trailer.

A 13K truck and 14K trailer would require a Class A CDL, which can be seen if one follows the second flow chart.

 

[Midniteoyl]

So, no one actually looked at the State requirements that I posted a couple pages back? Some States follow the fed rules only, but others make you get a Noncommercial Class A or Class B following the same, or very close to the same, rules as the Feds. These licenses are NOT "CDL" for pupose of interstate travel and are only bound by the State they are registered in.

I have a feeling some here are confusing this DOT CDL Class A vs State Class A conundrum. IE, just because your State requires a 'Class A' does NOT mean you have a CDL and can start doing commercial runs.

This thread started out with 'all 3500's need a CDL' and this is incorrect. Some STATES might require you to get a Class A/B Noncommercial licence, but that is not a 'CDL'.

 

[Rock knocker]

So, no one actually looked at the State requirements that I posted a couple pages back?

The AAA link you posted seems to have some erroneous information. I cross referenced some information fron that site with the state sites, and got different answers. The very first state I choose, Kentucky, gave much different answers on the State Police website than posted on AAA.

Just saying

 

[ultrarunner]

And remember all "Trucks" are commercial in California unless RV... even Ford Rancheros and Chevrolet El Caminos. So if it is newer that 1935? it must be commercial with weight fees.

That said there was no requirement for anything other than a regular driver's license to operate these "Commercial" rigs...

Standard here is to buy deratted trailers... like my PJ would be 12k but here is 9900.

Many are also opting to derate their super duty and many F350 Diesel Supers are 9900

 

[LD1]

And remember all "Trucks" are commercial in California unless RV... even Ford Rancheros and Chevrolet El Caminos. So if it is newer that 1935? it must be commercial with weight fees.

That said there was no requirement for anything other than a regular driver's license to operate these "Commercial" rigs...

Standard here is to buy deratted trailers... like my PJ would be 12k but here is 9900.

Many are also opting to derate their super duty and many F350 Diesel Supers are 9900

That is so.ethjng that I didn't see any clarification on. And you may very well be correct....but....

Just because it has to be tagged as commercial....doesn't mean you are working g for hire or engaging In Commerce.

CDL laws every where are way more complicated than they should be. Just like our tax codes. And I don't think even LEO's understand it all, and can be interpreted many different ways. Thus all the posts regarding this.

Makes my head spin

 

[bdog]

Yes it is all insane.

We have a 14k GVWR trailer. To pull it completely empty with my dually which is inherently safer, better control, etc requires a Class A non commercial or class A CDL if used in commerce. We can hook this exact same trailer loaded to the max GVWR and pull it with our 3/4 ton and be completely legal with a class C driver.

We have a 25,999 rated international truck with air brakes. A class C driver can drive it around pulling a 9999 rated trailer and a gross weight of just under 36k and be completely legal but heaven forbid you hook that 14k trailer on to dually.

The laws are very clear on this if you go to the source either the FMCSA if involved in interstate commerce or the your state's DMV if not going out of state for either personal or commercial use. There is a lot of misinformation out there on third party websites and forums but if you go straight to the horses mouth it is all spelled out in black and white.

I have a had a DOT number for about 8 years, have operating authority, a semi, dump truck, several non CDL trucks involved in interstate commerce, etc and deal with this stuff on a regular basis. I too was very confused on a lot of it until I started researching directly at the websites of the body that had jurisdiction over what I was doing. I will agree a lot of LEO's don't know it all either but I have all the relevant stuff bookmarked on my phone at the FMCSA and Texas DPS websites so if we have a roadside disagreement I will be glad to show them the law on their own agencies web site.

For example it is a very common misconception that if you have air brakes you have to have a CDL but you don't. There is no such thing as an air brake endorsement there is only an air brake restriction and the restriction is only applied to class A & B licenses if you happen to have one and didn't take your road test in a vehicle that has air brakes. There is no air brake restriction option for class C licenses so if it is a class C vehicle you can drive it with a class C license regardless of what kind of brakes it has.

 

[ultrarunner]

I like to think I keep up on things and have had to correct DMV staff on several occasions as when I was told I had to have my stock 1930 Model A pickup commercial plated...

I cited the vehicle code section and a supervisor came to the window and read it and said I was correct.

If you really want to make your head spin there is an entirely separate set of Diesel Regs that makes the commercial guys want to pull their hair out... like not being able to pick up a load from the port unless you have the lastest compliant engine... you can drop off but must leave empty... even it the rig is 10 years old.

My older friends that were owner operators simply gave up...

I posted awhile back that one offered me his one owner dump that was like new for 5k... with all new Michelins and Alco wheels... single axle 7 yard dump... it was just to complicated because the then 11 year old rig was non-compliant... then their was the issue of getting farm tags and insurance and in the end it simply proved to be to many regulatory hoops to go through.

Another friend is a logger... he can only operate his rig in one county because it is non compliant... he may retire when the exemption is up...

Medical and Drug testing is another part where we use to see a lot of commercial drivers at the hospital lab...

One question I have is what happens when you are totally in compliance in your home state and cross state lines as in picking up horses for personal use.

 

[Rock knocker]

One question I have is what happens when you are totally in compliance in your home state and cross state lines as in picking up horses for personal use.

Since licenses are nationally recognized, a proper and correct drivers license to a bona fide resident of that state is valid in other states. The DOT requirements (which do apply above 10K) would not apply to you because you are not in inter state commerce.

I think that would apply even if you went to say Oregon from Washington to buy horses. Once you bought the horses in Oregon they become your private property and you are not in interstate commerce. Same with other private individuals who may drive their animals to another state for sale, as long as they are not in the business of selling horses.