bucket tooth bar: EA wicked root ("continuous tooth") vs standard tooth design

[orangetree]

will be using a 3pt blade to re-grade about a quarter acre area; its currently gently sloped, i needs to be ~level: some fill at the bottom, taking off about 8inches at top. Final cover will be mostly garden, with a driveway/turnaround on one side.

We have ~easy soil (or i would not be attempting this with my 5000# small tractor (ck2610 with filled tires). Even being rock free, it's still has a bit of clay and with my weight I can't dig much, so it will be slow. i am thinking about adding teeth to my bucket, to help break up amy harder slops before spreading/draging downhill with the blade.

I'm looking at two tooth designs: the classic individual / spaced tooth https://www.everythingattachments.c...id-Steer-Bolt-on-Tooth-Bars-p/wrl-tb40-84.htm, or EA's in-house AR-steel "continuous" version https://www.everythingattachments.com/EA-Wicked-Tooth-Bar-for-Tractor-Buckets-p/eta-wtb.htm Which has a much larger frontal area to distribute my available force across.

Obviously the classic design will have more pressure on each tooth, presumably equating to more digging capacity in theory. But EA seems to know what they are doing - would this higher pressure at the tooth's business end help me as a practical matter? EA's design have teeth produding less far "down" as well - but this does make it flatter, which presumably makes a smoother / less disturbed final surface (helpful for the driveway part that I have to level/compact well.)

Anyone used both, especially on a small tractor?

 

[2manyrocks]

I have a Piranha toothbar on a 35hp full size tractor. In my personal opinion, I'd be looking for other options besides a toothbar on a FEL to break up and move 8" of dirt. And this is not because of the toothbar. It's because tractor loader arms and hydraulics are really designed for lifting loose materials. They aren't in a straight line to the frame like the blade on a dozer. Nor are the arms built like those on skid loaders.

The rear hitch is more suited to this kind of work. Shanks in a box blade could work without posing as much risk to breaking something on your tractor. You could also probably find a used box blade for $400 or so. Or a rear mounted pond scoop if your soil is pretty loose.

Or if you are going to plow your garden and have or will getting a plow, then by all means plow up the area you want to regrade and then trying moving the material once it is loosened up with your plow.

But, IMO, I wouldn't recommend using a toothbar on a FEL to break up and move much dirt for the reasons I've tried to explain.

 

[orangetree]

Shanks in a box blade could work without posing as much risk to breaking something on your tractor.

I have a plain blade - https://www.everythingattachments.com/Tractor-Rear-Scrape-Blades-p/eta-xd-sblade-.htm. I was hoping to strike a balance between a full box blade, and the scraper - especially since the scraper has tilt which I'm using on drainage work.

The box blade clearly has a strong front bar dedicated to the ~rippers - have you seen any products that add teeth to a scraper?

 

[orangetree]

Or if you are going to plow your garden and have or will getting a plow,

Don't know if i can justify this; but does make me think of a ripper. (is a blade ripper called a Subsoiler?)

A ripper (subsoiler) would, in this use, do the exact same thing, correct? For that matter, a ripper would probably have more effect / be driven deeper per pass?

A subsoiler might be easier to justify, although it would be a slow operation

 

[ctgoldwing]

I have EA's subsoiler and Wicked Tooth Bar. That said from what I interpret from your post I wouldn't use either one. I think I would use a box blade's scarifiers to rip up and loosen the ground. Then the box or back blade to move the material.
I have used the bucket / toothbar to move a fair amount of material that was fairly loose. I think it will be a hard grind trying to dig up packed soil, especially clay, with just a bucket.

 

[orangetree]

yeah, the scarifiers are probably the right thing to loosen it up, i agree - made for loosening up hard-compacted gravel, after all. Maybe i can find a used one locally...

regarding the bucket teeth - what are your thoughts pros/cons on the two styles - the Wicket/Piranha "continuous" style, vs the classic spaced style?

EA's advertisement that their AR serrated version helps pull saplings makes sense. Not sure how much that would matter to me. Anything else the styles differ at?

 

[2manyrocks]

I have a plain blade - https://www.everythingattachments.com/Tractor-Rear-Scrape-Blades-p/eta-xd-sblade-.htm. I was hoping to strike a balance between a full box blade, and the scraper - especially since the scraper has tilt which I'm using on drainage work.

The box blade clearly has a strong front bar dedicated to the ~rippers - have you seen any products that add teeth to a scraper?

I personally don't know of any ripper attachments for a rear scraper blade. There have been a couple of threads on this at TBN. One of the concerns is that the forces involved may bend the rear blade.

Plows and box blades can be found inexpensively used or at farm equipment auctions. If you won't be plowing ground, then a box blade might be the better option for you, especially if you have a gravel driveway to maintain.

My personal experience with the serrated Piranha blade is some smaller saplings get uprooted but then others get sheared off above ground level depending on the thickness of the sapling, ground conditions, the height of the bucket, and the angle of the bucket. A regular smooth bucket lip would just bend them over by comparison.

 

[oldnslo]

I have a regular style tooth bar and it does help cut through hard soil. Biggest thing I have noticed is it really affects curl force. I have cored out driveway down 10 - 12 inches just peeling a little at a time with FEL. I now have 3PH tandem disc I use to loosen the soil and then scoop it up if moving any distance.

No experience with other styles of tooth bar

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

While listening to your description of what you need done, my first thought was also a box blade with scarfiers down. You will have to make several passes, I'm sure. But this work is tailor made for what the box blade was designed for. Moving soil from a high spot, down to a low spot. That's got "box blade" written all over it. Get a decent one. The heavier the better. Make sure it has scarfiers or don't waste your time buying it.

 

[oosik]

I have several implements to level, fill, smooth pasture land. HD Rhino rear blade - LPGS with scarifiers - ROBB with scarifiers.

You notice - I have NO implements for the FEL to do this job. I have a grapple and bucket for the FEL. Neither is designed to do this job. OK - the bucket can scoop up loose material and move it. You have a good chance to damage the FEL if you start using it to dig compacted soil.

To smooth and level a chunk of land. Start with the ROBB - scarifiers down. This will loosen the top layer and allow the ROBB to collect and move soil to the low areas. Then the LPGS - scarifiers UP - this will finish it off - smooth as a pool table.

If I were looking for one implement to best do your job. Box blade with scarifiers. A home made "drag" like I have will smooth the surface. The "drag" has a rope yoke and is pulled with my ATV. Notice - the "drag" has a smooth side and a toothed side.

 

[orangetree]

I have several implements to level, fill, smooth pasture land. HD Rhino rear blade - LPGS with scarifiers - ROBB with scarifiers.

You notice - I have NO implements for the FEL to do this job. I have a grapple and bucket for the FEL. Neither is designed to do this job. OK - the bucket can scoop up loose material and move it. You have a good chance to damage the FEL if you start using it to dig compacted soil.

To smooth and level a chunk of land. Start with the ROBB - scarifiers down. This will loosen the top layer and allow the ROBB to collect and move soil to the low areas. Then the LPGS - scarifiers UP - this will finish it off - smooth as a pool table.

If I were looking for one implement to best do your job. Box blade with scarifiers. A home made "drag" like I have will smooth the surface. The "drag" has a rope yoke and is pulled with my ATV. Notice - the "drag" has a smooth side and a toothed side.

What are ROBB (_ _ box blade?), LPGS?

 

[oosik]

ROBB - roll over box blade. LPGS - land plane grading scraper. The ROBB allows me to mechanically change between standard box blade or scarifiers. LPGS - perhaps the simplest land engagement implement made. Side boards with angled heavy duty angle iron( two chunks) across/between the side boards.

This is the only pic I have of my LPGS. As soon as the batteries charge up in my camera I'll post a better pic.

 

[orangetree]

ROBB - roll over box blade. LPGS - land plane grading scraper. The ROBB allows me to mechanically change between standard box blade or scarifiers. LPGS - perhaps the simplest land engagement implement made. Side boards with angled heavy duty angle iron( two chunks) across/between the side boards.

This is the only pic I have of my LPGS. As soon as the batteries charge up in my camera I'll post a better pic.

So the ROBB does forward-scraper and reverse scraper ... but in scarifier mode the tines are behind the blade?

 

[oosik]

The ROBB is always, in my case, used in the forward motion. You use either the box blade OR the scarifiers. You don't use them both at the same time. Here is a better picture of my LPGS - GS2584.

And a pic of my ROBB. It's in the box blade mode now. Pull that black lever - sticking straight up - and it will roll over to the scarifier mode. Bush Hog - RO-720.

 

[2manyrocks]

Roll over blades are less common than box blades, heavier and more expensive than regular box blades. I suspect the weight helps them dig more and withstand the stress of digging.

Compare a roll over blade against any toothbar on your FEL bucket. There are reasons why roll over blades are built this strongly.

 

[orangetree]

The ROBB is always, in my case, used in the forward motion. You use either the box blade OR the scarifiers.

Trying to make sure i understand how this is different/better than a box blade: If you are not using the "reverse direction scraping" feature (I wouldn't either, that seems marginal unless you have a really tight space; even then, FEL + float?)

so the only difference (if you use forward-direction only) is that you can't use the blade behind the scarifiers to smooth the newly-chewed up ground?

With a box, you can already lift the scarifiers ... but when using the scarifiers, I would think you DO want the blade behind to smooth. At least that's sometimes a big positive; and at worst it's no difference?

Is the only advantage here you can flip it from driver's seat? (with a box blade you'd certainly have to dismount to raise the tines)?

 

[JohnnyMX]

The "Roll-Over" part is not necessary. Any normal box blade with rippers can rip and move dirt. Only difference is you may need to get off the seat to adjust the top link to rip more or less or move the rippers up or down.

 

[Vigo327]

Yeah, with a regular box blade that doesn't have hydraulically lifted and lowered rippers, the process of engaging and disengaging the rippers is get off the tractor and move each one of them by hand. I have 5 on my 60" box blade and it's just not a task you look forward to. It's not exactly hard (although it could be if your rippers were much heavier than mine, and your arms much weaker..) but its not comfortable or fun either. The ROBB looks sort of fantastic from the standpoint of being able to switch the rippers 'on and off' very easily, plus unlike a hydraulic setup it doesn't require you to have that hydraulic circuit or hook up anything extra (maybe a rope??) to use that feature. I definitely see its merits.

I usually leave my rippers at the setting which is about level with the front blade in the box, and then determine how much im using them by tilting the box with my power top link. If i tilt the box forward the rippers engage more and the rear blade lifts up and mostly disengages. When the box is level the scarifiers will catch and break up high spots as you pass over them. When you tilt the box rearward the rippers lift up from the ground, but while the front blade of the box is still close to the ground, that angle is mostly for 'dragging'/smoothing as it doesnt cut when tilted up like that.

But, even with the box tilted forward as far as my top link will tilt it, im only engaging the rippers about 2-3" down. If I wanted to go deeper than that I'd have to get off and manually move them to a lower setting, at which point the rest of the box blade ceases to be anything but a 'ripper toolbar' until i move the rippers back up again.