Diverter valve Vs. True third function

[k0ua]

There are lots of way to skin a cat, and I don't have anything against either the diverter or 3rd function setups, but I have got to tell you if you have a conveniently placed rear remote connection, Which the Kioti DK series is, then you have a quick and cheap setup for a grapple. I extended the lever about 4 inches taller so that can keep my hand on the loader joystick and still operate the remote lever to operate my grapple.. After using it for a few months, I find it so easy and intuitive to use I would not switch to either a diverter or 3rd function setup if someone gave it to me.
The ability to feather the pressure is useful to me, and while I went this direction originally to save money, now after using it for about 9 months I like it so well, I would not switch.

I have about $150 total in hoses and connectors, and a few dollars to lengthen the control stick.



http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...extension-control-valve-lever.html?highlight=

 

[Guesseral]

Three wires and six hoses?????????

Hay what can I say I'm lazy.

 

[jcummins]

A diverter is going to be 2 valves (1 for each line going to the cylinders) you put inline with your existing curl lines. .

I had a grapple, and simply ran hoses to a rear remote. It work well enough and after awhile, was fairly intuitive...BUT...I can see where using a diverter would be faster in operation. AND...fixing to add a grapple to my current M7040...same grapple and same model tractor as before...and may consider a diverter. Still it's more cost than lines to a rear remote, but on this tractor I have TNT, and don't really have a free rear remote, as before.

So...question. Two cylinders for the curl. Only one cylinder on the grapple I want. How do I plumb that?

 

[kennyd]

I had a grapple, and simply ran hoses to a rear remote. It work well enough and after awhile, was fairly intuitive...BUT...I can see where using a diverter would be faster in operation. AND...fixing to add a grapple to my current M7040...same grapple and same model tractor as before...and may consider a diverter. Still it's more cost than lines to a rear remote, but on this tractor I have TNT, and don't really have a free rear remote, as before.

So...question. Two cylinders for the curl. Only one cylinder on the grapple I want. How do I plumb that?

You have two lines from your valve, they at some point are Tee'd to the two curl cylinders, the diverter goes before the Tee.
Does that answer your question?

 

[MtnViewRanch]

I had a grapple, and simply ran hoses to a rear remote. It work well enough and after awhile, was fairly intuitive...BUT...I can see where using a diverter would be faster in operation. AND...fixing to add a grapple to my current M7040...same grapple and same model tractor as before...and may consider a diverter. Still it's more cost than lines to a rear remote, but on this tractor I have TNT, and don't really have a free rear remote, as before.

So...question. Two cylinders for the curl. Only one cylinder on the grapple I want. How do I plumb that?

The diverter valve has 6 ports. 2 ports you run your 2 curl lines from your tractor to. The 2 lines that you unplugged from the loader control now get connected to the 2 default ports on the diverter valve. At this point everything works just as it did before. The 2 remaining ports on the valve get plumbed to feed the grapple. You touch your control button and the curl feed then is diverted to control the grapple.

Make sense? :confused3: I can get you a complete diverter 3rd function delivered to your door for $649. This will have a nice Scorpion control grip.

 

[jcummins]

You have two lines from your valve, they at some point are Tee'd to the two curl cylinders, the diverter goes before the Tee.
Does that answer your question?

Yes...I figure that was the answer. But I seem to recall seeing these mounted up front...perhaps not. A diverter option still get ...pricey. if I had a free rear remote I wouldn't consider it.

 

[kennyd]

A diverter option still get ...pricey.

There is nothing "cheap" about hydraulics except o-rings and advice here on TBN :laughing:

 

[94BULLITT]

I have a 3rd function. I think it is the best way to go. You can run all 3 functions at once if you need.

 

[bumperm]

I have a 3rd function. I think it is the best way to go. You can run all 3 functions at once if you need.

Me too. With a front mount snow blower, up-down/float and chute rotation are controlled with the joystick. The 3rd function buttons for a remote valve are on the joystick just below the main grip. 3rd function controls chute deflection. There are restrictors (.032") for the chute hydraulic motor and for the deflector cyclinder so they don't move too fast.

Don't think it would be near as convenient with a diverter.

bumper

 

[dixstir]

Me too. With a front mount snow blower, up-down/float and chute rotation are controlled with the joystick. The 3rd function buttons for a remote valve are on the joystick just below the main grip. 3rd function controls chute deflection. There are restrictors (.032") for the chute hydraulic motor and for the deflector cyclinder so they don't move too fast.

Don't think it would be near as convenient with a diverter.

bumper

I have a 2305 ,the electric diverder is mounted to right lower loader frame with a tee to outlets , one goes to the front for grapple forks other goes to the rear for my hydraulic top link , if I dont want the link to move I just un hook the hoses.

 

[jcummins]

This double solenoid diverter valve works as good as any other diverter. They have about 218 of these in stock now. $153.

SAE 8 15 GPM DOUBLE SELECTOR VALVE 12 VDC P15544-1

Here is how the valve is connected.

http://www.surpluscenter.com/_MoreSpecs/i9-5117.pdf

Got a grapple on order, and think I will go with a diverter. Seems a bit less money, and simplier to install...at least for me.

J_J on the diverter in the link you mentioned, it does not by default go back to the orginal function as the other one mentioned. I'd like for it to work...press the button, you work the grapple. Release the button it's back to normal. From what I'm reading this valve does not work that way.

Also, looking at hoses, I probably will run 1/2", since it is all I have dealt with, but from what I read the fitting size on the hoses for 1/2" or 3/8" are different. How does that work with I guess are 1/2" ports on the diverter valve?

Others have mentioned the Bosch is still available...just not from surplus center. If so where is that at?

 

[jcummins]

Also...how do this valves mount to the tractor. The Bosch appears to have holes in the corners, but bolting that way also appears it would block some ports to the mounting plate. On the valve J_J reference, I don't see similar holes.

 

[Guesseral]

I just don't see how this valve would work, I must be missing something. I could see it if one valve was normally open and one was normally closed, that way when the button was pushed they would just change state and transfer fluid from one to the other but I just don't see it as it is.

 

[BukitCase]

"The Bosch appears to have holes in the corners, but bolting that way also appears it would block some ports to the mounting plate."

The Bosch valve - the holes in the corners are for stacking multiple valves, there are other holes (recessed for allen head bolts) for mounting the valve to your equipment. They are at 90 deg. to the "stacking" holes.

When stacked, the bosch has two inlet ports on one side of the stack, the default (no power) is straight thru to the other side, whether there is one valve or several stacked. Energizing the solenoid switches THAT valve to the side ports.

The fourth side of the valve is blank so that goes against whatever mounting surface you use.

Flow is thru any and all valves in the stack and out the other side with no voltage applied to any solenoid, so whatever function you're "stealing", the two hoses from the original control valve go in one side and two NEW hoses go from the OTHER side BACK to that original function (curl, for example) - then the SWITCHED ports (the pairs of ports that aren't used yet) go to whatever you are adding, and the solenoid for each diverter in the stack "diverts" flow from the normal destination to the new one.

Only way I've figured out to use the double solenoid setup for this is to have something like the Scorpion handle with 2 buttons and the trigger switch, and use ONE button to divert TO your grapple and the SECOND button to "un-divert" back to bucket curl.

Glad I have the Bosch... Steve

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Got a grapple on order, and think I will go with a diverter. Seems a bit less money, and simplier to install...at least for me.

J_J on the diverter in the link you mentioned, it does not by default go back to the orginal function as the other one mentioned. I'd like for it to work...press the button, you work the grapple. Release the button it's back to normal. From what I'm reading this valve does not work that way.

Also, looking at hoses, I probably will run 1/2", since it is all I have dealt with, but from what I read the fitting size on the hoses for 1/2" or 3/8" are different. How does that work with I guess are 1/2" ports on the diverter valve?

Others have mentioned the Bosch is still available...just not from surplus center. If so where is that at?[/QUOTE]

Contact me at Fit Rite Hydraulics.com

 

[Fallon]

Contact me at Fit Rite Hydraulics.com

I'll vouch for the quality of his products & helpfullness dealing with less than experienced users such as myself on their projects.

I also like supporting businesses that support the community, which he does as an advertiser & with posting lots of good advice & support.

 

[J_J]

MtnViewRanch,

Guesseral

BukitCase

If you are talking about the double solenoid valve, here is how it works.

You need a 3 position switch with the center pin +12 v.

With the switch in sw1, 12v is applied to the curl solenoid of the valve and the curl will work normally.

With the switch is sw2, 12v is applied to the grapple solenoid and the grapple will work.

If you leave the switch in neutral, the relief will activate because no fluid is flowing with no voltage applied.

Select your operation before using the lever.

The other single solenoid valve works different by using one solenoid to route the fluid .

In the no voltage state, the curl will work.

With 12v applied, the grapple will work.

I don't believe I said anything different. I do know how they work.

The diverter valve will have 6 ports, and the true 3rd function, will probably only have 4 ports unless you order the subplate with a relief valve port or a hyd gage port.

 

[lfson]

A diverter is going to be 2 valves (1 for each line going to the cylinders) you put inline with your existing curl lines. Hit a button & they switch from curl to 3rd function. A fair bit easier than adding another valve into your power beyond loop. You need less hose too as you can put the valves in a convenient spot near the bucket.

You only get curl or 3rd function, not both at the same time as you already noted though. That's probably the biggest drawback.

I keep think about doing it with a 3 way valve instead of a 2 way to add a cylinder to my SSQA levers so my lazy *** doesn't have to get off the tractor to switch from bucket to forks (would need to get off & deal with 3rd function hoses for a grapple I don't yet have though).

I'm glad you posted this question Hokie because I am kind of curious as well. I thought I had my heart set on a third function but after some more research I am starting to think maybe a diverter valve would be my best option.

From what I've heard the plumbing to do a diverter is much simplier than a third funct. and I too like the idea of being able to feather the hydraulics. My main thought was if I was to use it for picking up hay bales or planting a tree with a root basket I would be much less likely to crush them.

Interested to hear what some of the people that have diverter valves or third funct. have to say.

I just received my grapple. I thought I had a 3rd function (what I ordered with a new tractor), but a diverter valve was installed.

The biggest problem I see is when I am getting rid of my blackberries. The "plant" is about 8' high and 50' wide and goes in about 30'. When I drive into the "bush", it would be nice to close the grapple while raising the curl to pull the plants out (I know, I can just lift the grapple).

Plus the problem of not really knowing the functionality of the diverter valve. I cannot see what is happening in the bush. The front of the tractor (and grapple) is buried deep in the plant. With experience, this should not be a problem. Just not the level of control I would like to have had.

BUT, I must repeat, the tractor and grapple are new to me.

 

[Fallon]

I just received my grapple. I thought I had a 3rd function (what I ordered with a new tractor), but a diverter valve was installed.

The biggest problem I see is when I am getting rid of my blackberries. The "plant" is about 8' high and 50' wide and goes in about 30'. When I drive into the "bush", it would be nice to close the grapple while raising the curl to pull the plants out (I know, I can just lift the grapple).

Plus the problem of not really knowing the functionality of the diverter valve. I cannot see what is happening in the bush. The front of the tractor (and grapple) is buried deep in the plant. With experience, this should not be a problem. Just not the level of control I would like to have had.

BUT, I must repeat, the tractor and grapple are new to me.

On an open center hydraulic machine like a CUT you generally can only get 1 function to work at a time. The exception to this would be lift & curl on the loader as they have some special plumbing in the valve block. If you want to use a red function, lift the 3 or or something, things get slow & funky. That's the nature of open center hydraulics. Closed center hydraulics like you'd find on an excavator can run multiple functions at a time, but are more complex & expensive.

You can make things work, but they get fiddly. I have a hydraulic post hole digger that runs off a 3rd function. If I try to raise or lower the boom the auger all but stalls. You get use to it & can fiddle enough to drill holes with it.

Spend some time working the functions while you can see what's going on. Work 1 function at a time & get that down before trying to add in your third function.

Also be careful about burying the front end into stuff. That's a great way to mangle hoses, hoods & radiators. These are tractors not armored bulldozers.

 

[kennyd]

Necropost...
This thread was started in 2014