DT transmission Vs HST transmissions any drawbacks for longivity ?

[sewdds]

I have the same tractor (L3800DT) Bluegill2 has(and also live in the same AR county - Clay). The dual stage clutch works well. I've been using almost simultaneously, my L3800DT and a hydrostat 3032 John Deere. The Kubota is a much more robust machine in every way! My thoughts, if there is no physical disability, I'm just as happy with the DT, if I'm the only one using it; however, if it were to be used by employees, or mechanically deficient people, the hydrostat has some advantages. I live and work in very hilly country and understand, correctly or not, that there are some advantages to the manual in my situation.
The L3200 has a single stage clutch, L3800 has dual stage. That would be a deal breaker for me concerning a L3200DT. I'd get a L3200 HST if I were getting a 3200. Toss up on the L3800.

 

[Bluegill2]

I have the same tractor (L3800DT) Bluegill2 has(and also live in the same AR county - Clay). The dual stage clutch works well. I've been using almost simultaneously, my L3800DT and a hydrostat 3032 John Deere. The Kubota is a much more robust machine in every way! My thoughts, if there is no physical disability, I'm just as happy with the DT, if I'm the only one using it; however, if it were to be used by employees, or mechanically deficient people, the hydrostat has some advantages. I live and work in very hilly country and understand, correctly or not, that there are some advantages to the manual in my situation.
The L3200 has a single stage clutch, L3800 has dual stage. That would be a deal breaker for me concerning a L3200DT. I'd get a L3200 HST if I were getting a 3200. Toss up on the L3800.

I like that and will use it at some point.

Was pulling a 6' box blade yesterday with mine and it was doing a fine job!

 

[Grandad4]

I live and work in very hilly country and understand, correctly or not, that there are some advantages to the manual in my situation.

The HST guys would say in most normal working conditions you've got it just backwards. Getting on the clutch while on a hill to stop, change directions or go through neutral to reach a lower gear is way more of an adventure than simply adjusting the pedal position on an HST tractor to do the same things. For the same reason, the HST type has a traction advantage because those changes can be done more smoothly. Experienced operators at the top of their game know how to deal with gears and hills, of course, but, on balance, the HST setup presents less chance of a tractor-in-neutral, free-wheeling ride down the hill due to some combination of clutching, gear-shifting and operator clumsiness. Old tractors with bad brakes and older operators with declining skills (me included, unfortunately), make the risks even greater.

The gear tractor does have one distinct advantage in extreme slope conditions. If you're on a truly steep slope, say 30 percent or more, at some point the HST fluid will drain so far to one end of the pan that the pickup sump can't draw hydraulic fluid for the pump and the tractor free-wheels.

Whatever your preferences, know the strengths and weaknesses of your equipment and be safe!

 

[k0ua]

Unabashed hydrostatic promoter here, and Living on a hillside here in Branson, Mo. I can attest after owning 1 Gear and 2 Hydro tractors here, the Hydro tractors offer a considerable advantage in safety when operating on this extremely hilly and dangerous terrain. As for the 30% slope preventing pickup of fluid, I can say I have operated on slopes close to twice that steep (close to 30 degrees which is about 57% slope) without any difficulty of fluid pickup in my Kubota L3400hst and my Kioti DK35se. Now my JD lawn tractor with a hydro. Not the same thing. I can attempt slopes here that the little single range hydro will stall on. It is not a robust hydrostat at all. Also if you go down some of these slopes the "holdback" of the little hydro is insufficient to prevent the little tractor from going flying down the hill. But our Larger Hydro tractors are nothing like the little "lawn and garden" tractors. They are night and day different.

James K0UA

 

[Grandad4]

Interesting to hear of your experience on slopes, James. Years ago there was a West Virginia fellow who came on TBN seeking advice, having gotten his brand-new L4610HST (just like mine), several miles back in some of the up and down trails in the mountains there, and couldn't get back out again because of the sump pickup issue. I don't recall that we ever heard just how steep those trails were or what he ever did, but since then I've always been a little cautious when stating the limits. A 60% slope is nothing to sneeze at!

 

[TripleR]

I believe I read on here that a service bulletin had come out on the tractors with sump pickups...maybe I am imagining it...

 

[DK35vince]

I personally do not like electric PTO engagement. I want a manual lever (not a cable) and clutch activated PTO. And that's what I have.

Its a personal preference thing.
I personally prefer the independent PTO over the dual stage clutch

 

[WilliamBos]

Its a personal preference thing.
I personally prefer the independent (electric) PTO over the dual stage clutch

X2. Electric is becoming the standard now.

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

Glad I didn't know about the sump pump issue or I'd of been in fear like after learning about the fans that shred on BXs. I've owned 15 Kubotas. 14 HSTs and one gear which was a B2320 and the PTO stopped when the clutch went in and I hated that when tilling.
I live on a steep hillside and have never experienced any failure to run. Maybe ignorance is bliss.....well no I don't believe that or I wouldn't have kept buying different Kubotas to find the perfect combination of Kubotas for my current mowing/tractor needs.
I also have to take issue, major issue with gear being better on hillside usage. The HST goes the speed you want whether fast or slow based on the foot pressure and letting off of the foot pedal stops them. I've also been confused about the separate brake for each wheel which I could never find any time that would have ever made a difference to me the way I use a tractor. I've just always used the steering wheel to make turns and not the brakes.
Lots of great info on TBN but some of it is.........well.........I'm done.

 

[NE Tractor]

I guess it really comes down to price in replacing the clutch Vs the whole transmission with the HST, if it were to go bad some day ? Because I am hoping to buy a premade package deal from one of several dealers across the USA who have the L3200/L3800 DT and HST packages they are selling.

I am just curious about what will be best for old age and what is going to last or hold up to very little abuse maintaining 1.8 acres that are flat scrub brushy. I like the idea of getting everything included for x amount of $, trailer included, not to mention saving a few thousand in Taxes if possible, as I wont need to License it anytime soon in my state I don't think.

Thank you for any input you can offer, and huge bonus if you have direct experience buying of one of these premade packages from whom ? how much did it cost you and how is it working for you as of now.

Thanks,
Manshoon

Been working on tractors for 34 years and I sold tractors for 7 years in New England and in this area of the country Hydro rules. We very reluctantly took gear tractors in trade as they would become lawn ornaments, had to pretty much give them away. The hydro's are pretty bullet proof, never had to repair one.

 

[sewdds]

I did write "correctly or not". It appears that many with considerable experience with Kubota HSTs would choose the "not". Maybe ignorance can be bliss. The advice I had been given concerning HSTs could have very well come from his experience(dealer's) with "lesser" HSTs on smaller machines. Whatever, maybe I shouldn't tryout a HST on a tractor of mine's size.

 

[Bluegill2]

Seems like gear trans is a little more popular around here. But this is a very rural area with mostly logging, cattle and hay production.

 

[sewdds]

Success
Town in Arkansas
Success is a town in Clay County, Arkansas, United States. The population was 180 at the 2000 census. Wikipedia
Area: 128 acres (52 ha)
Weather: 72°F (22°C), Wind NE at 6 mph (10 km/h), 100% Humidity
Local time: Saturday 9:02 AM
Population: 147 (2011)

Don,
Being that Success, AR is across the county from where I live, and not noticing the "MO" , I had assumed you lived in Clay County, AR, not Texas County, MO, where I think I've seen Success, MO is. Success, AR is on the MO border and many Success, AR "residents" live in MO.
Back to the DT vs HST, being new to the tractor scene, using the DT with my tiller , bush hog(Rhino 160), FEL, and box blade hasn't been a problem. Having not really used an HST much, and not knowing what I might be missing, I think I'll not try out an HST. Might be like having tasted vanilla ice cream cones and never having tried chocolate.

 

[Grandad4]

I believe I read on here that a service bulletin had come out on the tractors with sump pickups...maybe I am imagining it...

Just for those who might be interested, here's the link to the saga of the guy with the stuck tractor in the mountains. It was Western North Carolina, not West Virginia, sorry about that, but the story is genuine, and the issue was indeed the hyd fluid pickup, along with the extreme conditions. Some of the early TBN members participated in the thread. So nice to see the spirit of genuine helpfulness, without a hint of sarcasm, that they brought to TBN.



http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...ailing-my-4610-a.html?highlight=What's+ailing

 

[k0ua]

Might be like having tasted vanilla ice cream cones and never having tried chocolate.

I believe that explains about 90% of the sentiment right there. If the Gear/clutch is working for you.. why change.? And there are some things Gear does better.. Like everyone says it puts the maximum available power to use (more efficient). There is no rational argument about that. But there are many things that Hydrostat does better. And there is more to efficiency than raw power delivered to the ground.. There is also human efficiency to be considered. All operators are not the same, some are much better than others. My first tractor, was and 8x2 utility tractor with an aftermarket FEL with a 2 stick control valve on the FEL.. I learned to operate it quite well. Would I want to go back to a 2 stick FEL control valve? Heck no.. but did it do a lot of work for me.? you bet it did.

My point is you can get used to anything, even though there are much better things out there. Finding the correct gear for mowing conditions on the 8x2 was always a pain, 4 low was often too slow, 1 high was often too fast, or it varied second by second, but you just learned to do the best you could. I would also caution you a few minutes of driving a tractor around a dealers lot, will tell you nothing about using that tractor on your place with the type of work you do. But after owning 5 tractors, now 2 gear and 3 hydro.. I have made my choice, for the type of work I do, it is hydro. No question about it. If I was plowing the 80 acres in nice straight rows. I would want a gear tractor. OH... and with AG tires too!. But with the majority FEL work, give me hydro and R4'S

James K0UA

 

[dex3361]

Interesting to hear of your experience on slopes, James. Years ago there was a West Virginia fellow who came on TBN seeking advice, having gotten his brand-new L4610HST (just like mine), several miles back in some of the up and down trails in the mountains there, and couldn't get back out again because of the sump pickup issue. I don't recall that we ever heard just how steep those trails were or what he ever did, but since then I've always been a little cautious when stating the limits. A 60% slope is nothing to sneeze at!

This may have been an issue with the HST fluid level or as previously mentioned a service issue. I have used both my L4400HST and my BX1500HST on hills that exceed 30 degrees to a verifiable 32 degrees. I have not experienced the loss of fluid issue on either machine. I always go up and down never sideways on steep sections and it has to be dry or frozen ground except with chains on. Scary stuff though.

 

[TripleR]

Having not really used an HST much, and not knowing what I might be missing, I think I'll not try out an HST. Might be like having tasted vanilla ice cream cones and never having tried chocolate.

As mentioned already, this is often the case. I liked my Ford 600 and farmed with it for years until I got a Case with power steering and independent PTO, thought it was just the ticket until I used our Massey Ferguson 375, loved it until I drove our Case CX80 with all that AND synchronized shuttle shift, loved it until I traded it on our M8540 with all the aforementioned except it has a Hydraulic Shuttle Shift, man that is great thought I then I bought a L5030 HSTC... OK, I still love the M8540 AND my L5740, but I didn't know until I tried a new design long term.

Having said all that however, I acknowledge for some, geared is the way to go and nothing will change their preference absent some physical problem. My younger brother bought his "retirement tractor" a few months ago to supplement his others and to have something easy to trailer and it's a synchro-shuttle, he couldn't be happier. He has forgotten more about tractors than I know.

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

. . . I've also been confused about the separate brake for each wheel which I could never find any time that would have ever made a difference to me the way I use a tractor. I've just always used the steering wheel to make turns and not the brakes. . . .

If you were driving a large tractor pulling a heavy ground-engaging implement, such as a chisel plowing a large field, you would quickly see the benefit of separate brakes when it came time to turn a corner in the field.

Now, my experience is from years ago and I haven't driven any large modern tractors. I assume modern 4wd would help turn the tractor and implement without brakes, but the separate brakes were mandatory in our uses.

 

[GManBart]

I guess it really comes down to price in replacing the clutch Vs the whole transmission with the HST, if it were to go bad some day ? Because I am hoping to buy a premade package deal from one of several dealers across the USA who have the L3200/L3800 DT and HST packages they are selling.

I am just curious about what will be best for old age and what is going to last or hold up to very little abuse maintaining 1.8 acres that are flat scrub brushy. I like the idea of getting everything included for x amount of $, trailer included, not to mention saving a few thousand in Taxes if possible, as I wont need to License it anytime soon in my state I don't think.

Thank you for any input you can offer, and huge bonus if you have direct experience buying of one of these premade packages from whom ? how much did it cost you and how is it working for you as of now.

Thanks,
Manshoon

If money is really tight, I'd suggest taking a look at anything other than a Kubota or a Deere....great products, but the two most expensive you can buy for any given level of performance. When I priced out comparably equipped models from all the big brands I would have had to pay $10K more for a Kubota, and a Deer would have been a bit more. Other brands are sold in package deals as well. When I settled on my LS, I looked around the country and saw that a couple of big places, like RCO in Tx, sold packages that were attractive. I'm sure you could find the same for a variety of brands.

One small note...WA has a use tax, so even if you buy the machine in Tx, you very likely still owe the use tax...not easy to enforce, but it's become a sticking point, and some folks are getting busted for it.

For the size property you're talking, and the description, I can't imagine you'll ever have a problem with an HST unit wearing out, or breaking...if you did, it would be a freak. That also brings up the issue of warranty....some brands offer a considerably longer warranty than Kubota. Kioti offers 4yrs, Mahindra and LS have a 5yr powertrain warranty...just something to consider.

For the work you're describing, the HST will be more convenient, and won't hinder your ability to do things...you're not pulling a hay bailer, or plowing large fields, so the power loss to HST won't be noticed. It will also be far easier for folks not so accustomed to manual transmissions....especially because with a tractor there are a lot of other things you're minding....the level of the implement, the throttle position, etc, etc. My wife has driven a standard transmission for years, but doesn't want to drive any of my tractors except the one with HST. Personally, I think she needs her own SCUT

 

[Bluegill2]

Success
Town in Arkansas
Success is a town in Clay County, Arkansas, United States. The population was 180 at the 2000 census. Wikipedia
Area: 128 acres (52 ha)
Weather: 72°F (22°C), Wind NE at 6 mph (10 km/h), 100% Humidity
Local time: Saturday 9:02 AM
Population: 147 (2011)

Don,
Being that Success, AR is across the county from where I live, and not noticing the "MO" , I had assumed you lived in Clay County, AR, not Texas County, MO, where I think I've seen Success, MO is. Success, AR is on the MO border and many Success, AR "residents" live in MO.
Back to the DT vs HST, being new to the tractor scene, using the DT with my tiller , bush hog(Rhino 160), FEL, and box blade hasn't been a problem. Having not really used an HST much, and not knowing what I might be missing, I think I'll not try out an HST. Might be like having tasted vanilla ice cream cones and never having tried chocolate.

Yes, there is more than one Success, even more than one in Mo. I'm in Texas county, about 80 miles north of the Ar line.

Back on topic. Go ahead and try a HST, I did and still like gear better.

I will not say gear is better, but I don't want to hear someone say HST is better either. They are both good. Buy what you like!