First time buyer. Help. Have questions about Scut/Cut.

[Rutman]

Welcome to TBN. Yes, the slope vs degree thing is something we've all seen before on TBN. Basically "slope" is expressed in percent rather than degrees, and it turns out that slope is roughly twice whatever the degrees are.
So your hill might measure 17 or 18 degrees and that would be a approximently a 35% slope. (45 degrees is 100 %).
No problem; us tractor guys on hilly land deal with that definition, and with that much slope, most every day.

Everyone is saying the same thing to your initial post: 25HP sure beats no tractor at all, so it that is what the budget will afford, then do it. But we also know that for what you are describing you'd be better off with a larger tractor - something in the 3500 to 4000 lb range. You can save money by getting a gear drive rather than hydrostat. You'll definitely need a loader, and the lower cost of the gear drive transmission just might pay for one. As far as implements that fit on the 3pt hitch - like a back blade or/or box blade, mower, post hole drill....etc. There's no need to buy those new. Used 3pt implements work as good as new ones, they just look used.

Tractors last a lifetime and you can sometimes find good ones used. Read through back threads on TBN and you'll probably find that the normal reason a tractor is for sale is that the owner wants a similar tractor in the next larger size and maybe some specialized options. Quality used tractors can give you a lot of machine for your money. Is there any reason not to consider used?
rScotty

Don稚 have a problem with used. After driving a few I know i want HST. Used ones I see are around 15000. That痴 one reason I thought might as well go new to get a warranty.

 

[Rutman]

Rutman, lots of good advice in this thread. Even with your clarification on your driveway, I think you've still underestimated your needs. With 20 acres, you're going to find a lifetime of projects for your tractor, and with a SCUT I guarantee you'll be saying "wudda, cudda, shudda" in no time. All the brands you're considering would be fine for your purposes, IMO, but if this will be your only tractor, I'd steer you toward something with 35 hp or more. Probably in the frame size of the Kioti CK series. BTW, don't be afraid of Tier IV. I think you'd regret sacrificing utility just to stay under the Tier IV threshold.

You didn't say how you plan to mow your 3 acres of yard, or how it's configured. My suggestion is to get dedicated zero-turn if flat enough for it. Or a small finish mower, rather, say, than a belly mower.

I have 3 riding mowers. So I知 good for the lawn. One of them is my (bushhog).

 

[dodge man]

No personal experience but having looked at tractors and kicked some tire Kioti woukd be what I woukd pick of the ones you listed.

 

[LS Tractor Owner]

I saw that you mentioned the LS 2025. For just a small increase in price, the XG3025 is a far more capable machine. I personally needed a backhoe and loader, but was seriously limited in what I could afford/finance. That is why I went with a SCUT (the LS mt125). It has been able to do everything I asked of it, just not fast. I do maintain a 1200' long drive with a heavy 54" box blade, but it is relatively flat. The scarifiers are only about 2" down. Ussually takes all day.

I have a few more trenches to dig, then cut in a short drive about 200' long. After that, it will be used for mowing, landscape and driveway maintanance. I will be moving to a larger property in a few years, and the 3025 or the CK2610 will be the next tractor.

 

[Threepoint]

I hear you. I drove that one to. Just can稚 justify 17000 on cost versus use. If I spend that much I would look hard at RK24 with backhoe.

Rutman, here on TBN we're always happy to spend another member's money. :laughing:. But I think those who have responded thus far really are concerned that you won't be happy with a small machine for your future applications. That includes the RK24, which actually is not in the same frame size and capability as the CK2610HST that you drove. That RK24 with backhoe and loader for around $17K is a real value for the money, but IMHO it's still not even on the margin for a fairly large property like yours. Without the backhoe, it specs out close to my Kubota B2150 in power, weight and features, although without the 3-range HST and the much larger wheels. My B2150 is a beast for its size and one of the best purchases of any sort that I've made. But at most it's a 10-acre tractor.

Remember the rule of thumb of the old farmers: Figure out the biggest tractor you're likely to ever need for what you want to do. Then go one size larger. Not trying to argue; you've asked our views and will make your own decision. But IMO, if you're looking at the Kioti line, it should be at the CK3510HST with loader and no backhoe. Getting a backhoe with a smaller machine like the RK24 for less money is a false value if the basic machine turns out to be too small. Sure, you can always go small and trade up later. Just trying to save you the likely frustration. If you can afford to do it, bite the bullet now and spend the money for a larger machine. In six months you'll be happy you did when you're trying to grade that driveway with a 5' box blade, or clear snow with a 6' rear blade. The pain from the purchase price will be a distant memory. :thumbsup:

 

[Rutman]

Thanks for all the advice. I知 not getting a scut. I知 definitely gonna go big. Don稚 know how big. Y誕ll know a million times better than me about tractors and their advantages and limitations when it comes to size.
? Do dealers discount prices in the fall or when the new year comes out like autos.

 

[searcyfarms]

go CUT forget the SCUT

 

[DonE0929]

For what its worth I just went thru what you are gong thru now. I needed a new tractor/loader/backhoe/box blade. I searched the web, walked every tractor lot, read everything i could here...... research.....research some more.... decided I really wanted a SCUT. Then I looked at some and felt good about the price I would have to pay to get a good one. Then I finally came to my senses and admitted that anything BX sized was not gonna make me happy. I started the process over again. I almost bought the Kioti 2610 and if I had I would have been happpy, but in the end I bought a Mahindra 1526 with loader/backhoe and box blade (23,500 out the door). I bought the Mahindra for two reasons...#1 was the dealer. Not only did they bend over backwards to help me on 4 different visits and test drives, but they have a well staffed service center.The owner/dealer admitted his service rates are the highest in the general area and his only response when asked why, was "that's what it takes to keep good mechanics, I don't want to loose my good ones for a buck an hour to some other dealer". I visited the Kioti dealer a couple of times and never was there a mechanic on site and the service bay had very few tools in it. #2 the tractor I bought is a mitsubishi tractor with red paint. they have been making tractors since the beginning of time under their own name and painted other colors as well. I still own a little 13hp mitsu that has been doing more than it should since the mid 80's.
My property is similar to yours... steep and wooded in most areas (13 acres) and gravel drive way that the rain and spinning tires ruts up quickly.
The advice your getting here to step up from SCUT is very good. Yes they cost a little more, but not a lot more.... and if you are anything like most members here, you will own it a long time and the slightly increased payment over the life of the tractor will be forgotten in the long term.

 

[nrosario]

Rutman,

I think you are doing the right thin.

Take your time, is better to wait now and buy the right equipment once, please do not go to the whole effort of buying an equipment that will not completely satisfy your needs... and as someone in this forum said "Buy your second tractor the first time".

 

[HEC]

Lots of good advice here , just try and be sure you buy a brand from a good dealer who is well established in your area so you can get good service now and in the future . I ended up buying a new tractor only to sell it a couple years later because the dealer went under and left me with no service which I ended up needing .

 

[rbstern]

I maintain a 600' driveway, moderate slope on half of it, with my Yanmar 2210 and a 5' box blade. My rear tires are not weighted. With the box blade, I'm probably at 2100 to 2200lbs. When the driveway gets rutted, a typical maintenance session lasts about 2 hours. I only lose traction if the box blade fills up more than about 50%. This is in hard GA clay with a mix of #57 gravel and crusher run.

The bottom line is, you can do the work with a smaller machine. It just takes longer. You develop working techniques to offset the lack of traction and power. For example, downhill passes allow moving more material at a time, when gravity is giving a free assist.

I agree with the many posters here who suggest going bigger if you can, but it is not the only choice. With any good, working tractor and a box blade, you can get the work done. You might even consider looking for a well used "starter" tractor that represents a very low investment, so you can learn by hands-on, and save the bulk of your money for the long-term purchase a year or two out from now. You'll learn a lot more by running a tractor than reading about tractors.

 

[jeff9366]

Do dealers discount prices in the fall or when the new year comes out like autos?

VIDEO: HOW HIGH WILL PRICES CLIMB? - TMT - YouTube

 

[ThirdMan]

Thanks for all the advice. I知 not getting a scut. I知 definitely gonna go big. Don稚 know how big. Y誕ll know a million times better than me about tractors and their advantages and limitations when it comes to size.
? Do dealers discount prices in the fall or when the new year comes out like autos.

Agree with others. I love my SCUT, but your description of tasks indicates a larger machine. I am going to have to start doing just about 100 feet of gravel driveway maintenance soon, but have not had to yet. Whatever machine you are looking at for box blade work I have read you might want rear remotes to control a tilt upper link.

 

[searcyfarms]

also I wait until I get a little bit of rain to soften things up just right and then blade/grade it works so much better in gravel with moisture

 

[majorwager]

Jeffy,

Most economic forecasts are NOT generated by a You tube video, at least those w/ any realistic validity.
And to quote a source of similar status, Chicken Little, appearing in a sky is falling production, the manufacturing community is well aware that 100 percent of nothing is always zero.

If the cost of tractors exceeds the ability of the populace to purchase, what is the result?

Believe innovation, production efficiencies, slightly modified profit expectations, and perhaps factors not yet realized or revealed, will continue to produce a steady stream of affordable tractors, as well as washing machines, et el. Can't say the same for wine prices!

 

[searcyfarms]

agreed, everyone gets caught up in google/youtube hype and what ifs................so many variables around all of this stuff just like hydrogen powered tractors, and compress natural gas tractors and electric/diesel tractors, time will tell which way the consumers decide to go with things, do we go beta, or 8mm or vhs or now blue ray.................consumers do have some say in what happens look where beer is going!!!! so many micro breweries - much like wine - as long as it takes for things to transpire and stabilize or go a new direction Im 52 I will be dead n gone before much of this has much effect on me and most of us here. I say.................plow on until the horse dies then get another horse.

 

[shooterdon]

I maintain a 600' driveway, moderate slope on half of it, with my Yanmar 2210 and a 5' box blade. My rear tires are not weighted. With the box blade, I'm probably at 2100 to 2200lbs. When the driveway gets rutted, a typical maintenance session lasts about 2 hours. I only lose traction if the box blade fills up more than about 50%. This is in hard GA clay with a mix of #57 gravel and crusher run.

The bottom line is, you can do the work with a smaller machine. It just takes longer. You develop working techniques to offset the lack of traction and power. For example, downhill passes allow moving more material at a time, when gravity is giving a free assist.

I agree with the many posters here who suggest going bigger if you can, but it is not the only choice. With any good, working tractor and a box blade, you can get the work done. You might even consider looking for a well used "starter" tractor that represents a very low investment, so you can learn by hands-on, and save the bulk of your money for the long-term purchase a year or two out from now. You'll learn a lot more by running a tractor than reading about tractors.

I am in the process of doing this. Just could not justify spending over $20k on what I thought I might need with the total of my experience being spending about 8 hours on my neighbors tractor. So I waited for a used machine to come up and recently purchased an old JD 855 with FEL, MMM, blade, rake, boom, brush hog, and rototiller for $3500 and I have about $2300 into repairs for it. It only has 1200 hrs on it but it was abused. It may be all the machine I need but if not I will learn a lot by spending time in the seat and getting experience. If I decide I need to upgrade, it will likely not lose a penny on trading up.

There are people who buy too small and trade up but, in my experience, the price of used machines at dealers can be crazy. I was lucky and purchased mine from an estate of someone I knew. There are decent deals out there if you are patient. But it is difficult to be patient when there are tasks that need/should be done. I was able to borrow my neighbors machine when I really needed to use it but not everyone is that fortunate.

 

[rbstern]

So I waited for a used machine to come up and recently purchased an old JD 855 with FEL, MMM, blade, rake, boom, brush hog, and rototiller for $3500 and I have about $2300 into repairs for it. It only has 1200 hrs on it but it was abused. It may be all the machine I need but if not I will learn a lot by spending time in the seat and getting experience.

That's a lot of capability for a $5800 investment. You did well.

 

[Threepoint]

[snip]
If the cost of tractors exceeds the ability of the populace to purchase, what is the result?

Believe innovation, production efficiencies, slightly modified profit expectations, and perhaps factors not yet realized or revealed, will continue to produce a steady stream of affordable tractors, as well as washing machines, et el. Can't say the same for wine prices!

Yep, quite so, in the long. But as one of my economic professors many years ago was fond of saying: "We'll all be dead in the long run."

Every roller-coaster trip starts out upright and level, and finishes the same way. It's those short-term swings between market re-adjustments and corrections that make the ride exciting. If we need to make our buying decisions now we need short-term predictions. That Messicks video from January 2018 is already out of date, if it told us much of anything in the first place.

 

[searcyfarms]

sounds like a great deal shooterdon - i too first time got a used deere - put 2600 in it at deere and now an upgrading - i did not have a great experience going that route - have had it 3 summers and it breaks all the time - its a 2006/had 800 hours on it when i purchased it, now has 919 - so not overused by any means - the drive shaft has gone out, the mower deck lift arm on one side broke, two new idlers on deck, 2 new deck rollers, new belt, the power steering was what the big expense was to begin with, blew 3 of those out at about 10 hours each to the tune of 1900 each thankfully deere covered them under wty - deere finally decided some pressure regulator in the HST was sticking and causing the issues, it was intermittent so hard to find and never conclusive just guessing - mid pto seal replaced also leaking, the drive shaft would have been horribly expensive to repair the d/s alone was over 500 w/tax. sooooooooooooo i tore into it, OMGosh.....whatta p poor design - you have to take EVERYTHING off the top of the tractor to get to it including the floor pan/ROPS/fenders/wiring over 20 hours labor for us. Maybe deer could do it in 10. - THEN - it is a SOLID drive shaft again what a p poor design, you have to remove engine or trannie to get it out or maybe deere has some special tool to remove the u joints - i have a wonderful neighbor that helped me fabricate a way to separate the ujoint to remove the d/s. I had a replacement d/s fabricated - i had it fabricated with an extendable shaft as well as grease zerks that are accessible BARELY due to the p poor design and access to them. So in 119 hours i have had over 4 months of down time,over a month a year not to mention the continued costs of repairs and the frustrations of not being able to mow and do what i need to get done. I hope you have better luck than i have. I am honestly so apprehensive to use it I cringe every time i sit on the seat. My wife/daughter refuse to do anything with it - so..........i am dumping and running - going new w/wty - i hope and pray you don't have the experience that i have had with my machine. due to the costs of repairs and dumping more money into something i might not be able to get my money back out of - well - my wife and I tackled the d/s repairs, she took pix/documented wiring, parts/bolts/piles of things - knowing my luck, the thing will never break again in the next 10 yrs now that things are fixed and gone over but ugh..........my perception and attitude are scorned and i literally hate looking at the thing - bad memories - i did the upfront research and EVERYONE i talked to had nothing but good things to say about the 2210 - i think i got unlucky and just got one that was a challenge - we all know those are out there no matter the brand/model car/tractor/toaster - time to move on