JD4720 vs.Kubota M5040 vs. NH TC55DA

[art]

All tractors require different amounts of ballast do to design! Axle locations under the chassis shows the leverage points, then you look at the variable weights for location and the loader mounting. Whenwe were pulling one hundred lbs moved to the rear was like adding two hundred on the rear! Thats the good part of the rear wheel weights as they are more often then not enough! To add the weight off the three point hitch, anything added there adds up fast with it being behind the axle it has a big advantage of leverage.

Not to many people ever remove the rear wheel weights as with a 5% to 15% light loader use the wheel weights are enough to handle most all of those situations.

To be using the loader a larger percent of the time then more weight might be needed fixed to the tractor.

Any way you look at it the liquid is only cheap the first time! After it is gone from a tire leak the cost soon exceeds acceptable cast weighting.

After that you consider the fuel and additional wear from carrying the weight and cast is the cheaper ballast.

Only on a vary tight initial budget would I consider the liquid and only if loader work was going to be 85% of use. Other wise I'd not put any weights on and go three point hitch ballast only untill I could afford the cast weights.

Nuff said by me, that's what I've found to be the best, you make your choice!

 

[Roto]

Art you say it so good!! I totally agree and this. I just want to point a critical thing out that we havent talked about much. For all that is reading this listen up. The bucket capacity is about 1/2 yard heaped which is 13.5 cubic feet and gravel weighs about 110 pounds psf. so thats 1500#s with a full load of gravel heaped. So if your only doing loader work with dirt and gravel and not lifting 2500# pallets then this make a huge difference. I can maybe understand loaded tires if doing a-lot of 2500# pallet lifting all day but for the regular person doing some gravel work at 1500#s then you will be fine with behind the tractor rear ballest.

When i get my tc55d with 2300lb capacity loader, i will have no loaded tires at all just rear ballest behind tractor and i will lift a ton of fertilizer on a pallet up and go with it and drive around and unload and take pictures or video and show that its no problem.

55 gallon drum requires no welding of anything. Simply get a 1" (7/8"?)shaft of steel and poke it through the drum down low and toward front and after concrete gets poored it wont move. The other 2 pieces of steel are just rectangle stock with holes and jab them through the drum up higher and space them just right. that can be done after pooring concrete but before hardening to get then to stay. looks like $10 worth of scrap steel and no welding necessary and certainly not $180

Im done with this so enough said by me.

Mike

 

[Tact]

Thanks guys for all your input.

 

[BillyP]

Mike, I thought many times exactly about what you said. Just because a FEL is capable of lifting X amount of weight, will the bucket actually hold it? I never did figure it up but in my mind I decided it would have to be some exceptionally heavy stuff per cubic foot.

Now, if you need all this huge amount of ballast most of the time (like Art hit on) by all means do the liquid thing. Myself, I use my tractor for to many different things to be stuck with all this extra weight.

My vote goes for hang it off so you can take it off.

 

[Tact]

Mike, I thought many times exactly about what you said. Just because a FEL is capable of lifting X amount of weight, will the bucket actually hold it? I never did figure it up but in my mind I decided it would have to be some exceptionally heavy stuff per cubic foot.

Now, if you need all this huge amount of ballast most of the time (like Art hit on) by all means do the liquid thing. Myself, I use my tractor for to many different things to be stuck with all this extra weight.

My vote goes for hang it off so you can take it off.

Most of the extremely heavy material that I'd be lifting would be done with forks and not the bucket.

 

[john_bud]

the main reason for counter weight is to keep backend on the ground.

mike

Howdy Mike! How you do'n? Must be getting pretty deep into the mud season? We started to get pretty sloppy, then it froze up again. Last 4 days had lows in the 10-15 degree range and today was the first day with the high above freezing.

The connection between mud season and counter weight / wheel weight is traction. A tractor may have it's wheels on the ground and still not have the traction to do diddly (or is it diddlie?) when the bucket is full or when pulling a large implement. The next reason to have wheel weight / filled tires is to lower the center of gravity and increase stability.

If the measure of tractor weight balance is lifting the rear wheels, the tractor is SEVERELY unbalanced / underweighted and needs to be corrected. Many extension studies and tire MFG articles on this have been written over the years. The goodyear site used to have a good article on this if you are interested.

It sounded to me like the original poster was not going to use the tractor for yard work / mowing, but was going to do some more intense work and will be wanting to lift with forks (maybe in front of the bucket). This type of use is crying out for filled tires, an attachment on the 3pt and possibly wheel weights. If you read some of the posts on the Kubota M7030, owners are getting cast iron wheel centers and are positive about the increase in traction and stability. It's universal, more weight is better for traction and stability (as long as it's low and not muddy!!) For field work, the reduced tire slip will overcome the slight difference in fuel economy between tractors due to the weight of filled tires.

Around here most tires last 15-30 years. Most have CaCl2 loading (which I don't like) and have never had a leak or need to refill, except when putting on new rubber. and maybe new rims if they had CaCl2 .... Even then, a competent tire store will pump out and refill a tire for 20-40 bucks when putting on new rubber. So, my opinion is that filled tires is the cheapest source of rear weight.

Well, that's my opinion anyway. Sounds like yours is different. That's ok too. Just wanted to put out the other side of the discussion for the original poster.

jb

 

[Tact]

Well.......today I pulled the trigger and bought a new JD 4520. The 400CX loader had to be ordered, so did the rear SCV. So, in about two weeks or less I'll be playing with my NEW machine. This was a very hard decision for me, probably more so than buying a car or even a house, not really; but it seemed as hard. I just looked at so many used tractors and I couldn't find one that didn't look like it was rode hard. I guess I'm just too picky, so I chose new. The warranty, 0% financing, 400CX loader, and the newness were the things that made my decision more than anything. Also the low cost insurance was another big factor. Three year policy for $260.
Now my next big decision is going to be what I'm going to use for ballast. The dealer gave me a ballast box that I can fill with concrete or I can fill the tires. I'll re-read all your opinions on this again and again, and hopefully that decision won't be as hard as picking a new or used tractor.
Thanks again everyone for your input. Without your opinions I'd probably still be without a tractor and still trying to decide what to do.

 

[Roto]

Tact, just what are you going to use this tractor for again? If doing a lot of heavy lifting with forks i would say go ahead and load tires and still have counter weight for behind of some sort. I was pushing for dont load but keep in mind i always said if doing mostly heavy lifting then load the tires. I have said that all along so it depends on what your going to use this tractor for. I would say the number 1 reason to decide on loading tires or not is what your using the tractor for.

Congrats on your new purchase! Send some pics when you get it.

MIKE

 

[Z-Michigan]

Tact, congrats! Hope you enjoy it.

If you're going to do a lot of FEL work and use the 400CX to its limits, I think you will need BOTH filled tires and some heavy weight on the 3ph. I have 1500lbs of rimguard in my rear tires and today, for the first time, I did some loader work without any weight on the 3ph - before I've always had either my 450lb blade or my 700lbs+ LX6. The difference was very noticeable - while I never got the rear tires off the ground, I did feel the rear get light a number of times. And you will have equal lift capacity on a lighter tractor with smaller tires (meaning less weight if filled). Personally I would probably fill the ballast box with sand and use that + filled tires for serious FEL work, but I expect that any other heavy weight on the 3ph will, along with filled tires, likely be enough for most uses.

 

[Tact]

I'll primarily use the tractor on my hunting land for food plots and clearing. Occasionally, I'll use it on the job site for moving pallets of sod or a pallet of stone, but it will be rarely. I just wanted a tractor with a loader capable of lifting those capacities because sometimes it needs to be done by me, but not often.
I can't wait to get this beast home to put a coat of wax on it.

 

[Z-Michigan]

I guess for occasional loader use I would be more inclined to put your ballast on the 3ph and not fill the tires. Check the manual, but I suspect you will need at least 1500lbs on the 3ph, maybe more, if your tires have just air in them. That takes a fairly big ballast box. Another option would be to get a heavy duty (e.g. Woods or Landpride heavy duty) box scraper and put some suitcase weights on it to get the combo into the 1500lb range.

 

[boatermark]

Well.......today I pulled the trigger and bought a new JD 4520.

Congrats Tact! Just received my 4320 on Friday after waiting for a month. Only have been able to spend 30 minutes on it so far and am looking forward to the weekend.

For ballast I've got the rear tires filled (R1's) giving 460 lbs each I think. Also, right now I have a Farmi winch on the back.

PM me if you ever want updates on how things are going on my end.

 

[john_bud]

I'll primarily use the tractor on my hunting land for food plots and clearing. Occasionally, I'll use it on the job site for moving pallets of sod or a pallet of stone, but it will be rarely. I just wanted a tractor with a loader capable of lifting those capacities because sometimes it needs to be done by me, but not often.
I can't wait to get this beast home to put a coat of wax on it.

I think it was Roto that said it depends on your use, how you weight your tractor. That's excellent advice.

When you are working up your food plots, are you going to be just pulling a cutter and maybe a rototiller? If so, you don't need much weight. On the other hand, if you are going to be pulling a 3 bottom plow, 2 gang disc or middle buster you will be best served with filled tires and maybe wheel weights.

For the land clearing, if you are again just pulling a cutter and pushing brush into burn piles, you probably don't need to fill. But, if you are going to be recontouring the land with a box blade, dragging trees, stacking trees to cut for lumber / boards, or stacking trees for ground cover at the edges of the food plots. (Makes great staging areas for the deer - "U" shaped cut in the woods 20'x50' planted with clover with the brush pile separating it from the main plot) . You will be better with filled tires.

If you have a trailer, you can try it unfilled then trailer it to the tire store for fill if you decide you want to go that way.


You heard my personal preference earlier. But think it over and do what feels best. It's an easy thing to add fluid later.

jb

 

[Roto]

Just read my manual for first time for the TC55D with 270TL loader and it says 1700#s of 3pt hitch weight with no loaded tires is sufficient for full load on bucket. If you load tires you will still need 700# of weight on back to have the same impact. thats 1600# in tires plus 700# on the back is 2300# to have same effect of 1700# behind the tractor. NH sells a ballest box for the tc55 that will equal 2200#s when full and that would be sufficent to do anything you need. The manual also says "Adding more weight than is needed results in unnecessary soil compaction, increased rolling resistance, and higher fuel cosumption." So keep that in mind when somone is doing anything other than loader work and they are carrying that extra weight(1600#'s) when they dont need to. This is just for general knowledge for whoever is reading and not pointing to any idividual and again, it depends on the use of your tractor. My main point is think about the situation before you just load the tires because everyone says to load them.

Mike

 

[Tact]

Thanks Roto for you advise. I think I'm not going to fill the tires. I'm getting a ballat box from JD and I'm going to fill it with concrete. I'll try to determine the weight with that. Then if I still need more weight I'll probably add the wheel weights as needed.

 

[IH3444]

I got the rear 3PH ballast box, and loaded it with #1100, along with loaded tires. I have no problem with a full loaded bucket, and the so called steering problem very rarely rears it's ulgy head, and then it's just a matter of muving a few inches, and wamm, the steerings back to normal. This only occurs when the bucket is overly heaped, and the loader lift cylinders can't pick it up pass about 4ft into the air. A really big load.....

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

If this is at all an issue, I'd be concerned about abnormal wear on your front tires. A balast box is alot cheaper than new rubber.

 

[Turkeyman]

I have 4720 with 320 hrs on it with R4 tires, fill all 4 tires. You need the weight for the FEL and with filled tires the weight is low. You will love the tractor perfect for a hunt club. Enjoy!