Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

[beppington]

I ordered (in January) a Caroni 6' flail with F style blades from AS. It is a special order, and am hoping to receive it in mid to late May. I will be mowing mostly lawn, field grasses and very light brush. It does have twice the number of flails, 112 IIRC.

Please do post a pic or 2. I'm not sure what the F blades look like. Thank you.

 

[RFB]

I do not have the mower yet, but here is a photo of the different rotors/flails used in the various Caroni models.

The flail in the B and F is the same shape ("Y") , but more of them and I think the flail attachment point is different.

 

[leonz]

I do not have the mower yet, but here is a photo of the different rotors/flails used in the various Caroni models.

The flail in the B and F is the same shape ("Y") , but more of them and I think the flail attachment point is different.

The F Rotor on of the Caroni flail mower has the attachment weldment points at the 12, 3, 6 and 9 o'oclock positition as shown on the parts manual.

As your mower has 112 side slicer knives you have fourteen mounting stations per row mounting 14 side slicer pairs=28 knives per row.

 

[DirtHauler]

The "B" and "F" rotors have "Y" blades. The "B" rotor blades are shorter and attache to rotor via a shackle and bolt/nut allowing them more deflection when encountering rocks etc. and are half the number of blades as an "F" rotor i.e. my TM1600F has 96 blades and my TM1600B has 48.
The blades on a "F" rotor are longer and attach via a nut/bolt and, from experience, they will tend to bend when hitting hard immovable objects as they hit, fold back and splay outward.
The "F" rotor will work well if you have a fairly clean area to mow but if not, then I'd recommend the "B" type rotor/blades as they'll take quit a bit of abuse.
"Scoop" type blades don't like much more than lawns and/or fine grasses as the cutting edge will chip and/or bend if a hard object is encountered -----just my experience.

 

[dieselscout80]

Is there any reason that the fine cut blade on the left will not provide a good finish cut.

Does anyone have any pictures for comparison, using the best blades on each cutter.

My Ford 917 has those type blades shown on the left in your pic and it cuts as good as a lawn mower.

 

[ME83]

Is there a difference in ground speed when mowing a field between the B and F rotors? Does the F require any more power to run?

Sorry if this has been asked (don't remember all 120 pages), but can the Caroni work with the JD Imatch?

 

[IslandTractor]

Is there a difference in ground speed when mowing a field between the B and F rotors? Does the F require any more power to run?

Sorry if this has been asked (don't remember all 120 pages), but can the Caroni work with the JD Imatch?

I think Dirthauler is the only one here that has both styles so maybe he can answer. My bet is that you would not notice the difference. The finish version has more blades and therefore makes more contact but typically is mowing lawns which require a lot less HP than brush would. I can mow in pretty thick brush with my B series mower and not bog down even though I virtually never run full PTO power.

 

[beppington]

So nobody knows of anyone with Caroni's P knives (scoops I guess they're called?) shown in the pic posted by RFB (below again)?

That's what I think I'd like. Seems like the perfect combination of manicured lawn cut but still with the ability for the blade's to bounce back off a solid objects like a bush hog/rotary cutter.

 

[whirly]

... Seems like the perfect combination of manicured lawn cut but still with the ability for the blade's to bounce back off a solid objects like a bush hog/rotary cutter.

Actually, the knives on ALL versions will "bounce back off a solid objects". Each knife is individually hinged and will move over a solid object that is not higher than the blade cylinder.

 

[DirtHauler]

Is there a difference in ground speed when mowing a field between the B and F rotors? Does the F require any more power to run?

Sorry if this has been asked (don't remember all 120 pages), but can the Caroni work with the JD Imatch?

Just added a pic of the 1600F to my post, sorry 'bout all the mud but that's what happens when you mow a field of wet grass with tons of gopher mounds! As far power required between the two types.........not really. With my tractor I do almost all mowing in 3rd/low @ 540 pto rpm, if conditions allow, I'll run 4th/low. As for the 1600F if I use it in a field that has what we call out here "Harding" grass, I'll sometimes have to drop down to 2nd/low in order to allow it time to chew up the thick stalky stuff and spit it out. If not and ground speed is too fast it tends to "jamb" up the mower with large balls of grass. I believe this happens because of the number blades and the fact that it re-cuts the grass/weeds more than the 1600B before it spits out.(just my analogie) Other than that, I use the 1600F on fields and yards that are to some, thier "back yards" where thay like that carpet look after it's cut.
As for the JD iMatch, I've heard it will work, you may have to flip the lower lift pins towards the center of the mower.

 

[IslandTractor]

So nobody knows of anyone with Caroni's P knives (scoops I guess they're called?) shown in the pic posted by RFB (below again)?

That's what I think I'd like. Seems like the perfect combination of manicured lawn cut but still with the ability for the blade's to bounce back off a solid objects like a bush hog/rotary cutter.

I'm not so sure the scoops are a big difference from the F knives in terms of performance. They are both intended for manicured lawns. Only the B knives are really intended for brush. I am not sure where the notion that the scoops overlap between B and F comes from.

 

[beppington]

Actually, the knives on ALL versions will "bounce back off a solid objects". Each knife is individually hinged and will move over a solid object that is not higher than the blade cylinder.

I'm aware of that - It's the horizontal cut I want from the "P" knives/ scoops.

 

[beppington]

I'm not so sure the scoops are a big difference from the F knives in terms of performance. They are both intended for manicured lawns. Only the B knives are really intended for brush. I am not sure where the notion that the scoops overlap between B and F comes from.

I have a bush hog, so I can get that level of rough cut quality now. And when I use my dad's Caroni TM1900B the cut quality is of course much better than the bush hog, but still not quite that of a finish mower - Well, that's what I'd like, if possible. And it seems like blades with cutting edges parallel to the ground, rather than at a ~45-degree angle to the ground, would be more likely to provide that. It also seems like they might provide a little more up-draft than the B knives/rotor (if it has any at all).

Let me ask this: Why would somebody not want the "P" scoops/knives? What are the downsides to them?

 

[leonz]

I have a bush hog, so I can get that level of rough cut quality now. And when I use my dad's Caroni TM1900B the cut quality is of course much better than the bush hog, but still not quite that of a finish mower - Well, that's what I'd like, if possible. And it seems like blades with cutting edges parallel to the ground, rather than at a ~45-degree angle to the ground, would be more likely to provide that. It also seems like they might provide a little more up-draft than the B knives/rotor (if it has any at all).

Let me ask this: Why would somebody not want the "P" scoops/knives? What are the downsides to them?

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The turf type and duty cycle are the major consideration as the scoop knives are lower in number and total cutting edge length is less in total length which are the major issue.


The Caroni B and F rotors have a stationary knive assembly where the knives
maintain their orbit and do not slide out (the side slicers do not have an oval hanger hole)to create a more aerodynamic shape with these models.

If you want a fine mowed grass look with any rotor type-

The slower you can travel the better the cut as the flail mower rotor has more time to cut and recut each inch of advance.

_________________________________________________________________
Once you go flail you never go back:thumbsup::licking::drool:
Pronovost or not at all!!!:thumbsup::licking::drool:

 

[lungdoc]

Is there a difference in ground speed when mowing a field between the B and F rotors? Does the F require any more power to run?

Sorry if this has been asked (don't remember all 120 pages), but can the Caroni work with the JD Imatch?

Caroni needs some modification to work with the iMatch. The lower links are fine but the top pin is too low. Very easy to fix, here's how we did it (with diagrams and photos)
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/211159-caroni-flail-imatch-solution.html#post2416022

 

[Privatedoc]

Ok, curveball...idles anybody here know about towed atv flails? I'm in the UK and need a 42" or thereabouts self powered flail for a couple of acres.

Is hymari any good or just cheap Chinese rubbish?
What about quad-x and SCH?

Sorry to but in on the big pto powered discussion but you all seem so knowledgeable I thought I'd ask.

Cheers

 

[IslandTractor]

Ok, curveball...idles anybody here know about towed atv flails? I'm in the UK and need a 42" or thereabouts self powered flail for a couple of acres.

Is hymari any good or just cheap Chinese rubbish?
What about quad-x and SCH?

Sorry to but in on the big pto powered discussion but you all seem so knowledgeable I thought I'd ask.

Cheers

I've personally never seen evidence of a flail mower either pushed or pulled that has integrated power. Can't think of any reason why it couldn't be done just as some pull behind rotary mowers are self powered so I would guess it is just too small a market.

Haven't heard of Hymari at all. Must be a reseller on in UK or Europe. There is at least one Chinese flail sold in the US under the brand Best or something close to that. Smallish importer but the few guys who have reported seem happy. Issue with a small importer is always parts and support but the flails seem to work.

For two acres how about a small Italian flail pulled with pto power by a subcompact tractor?

 

[leonz]

Ok, curveball...idles anybody here know about towed atv flails? I'm in the UK and need a 42" or thereabouts self powered flail for a couple of acres.

Is hymari any good or just cheap Chinese rubbish?
What about quad-x and SCH?

Sorry to but in on the big pto powered discussion but you all seem so knowledgeable I thought I'd ask.

Cheers

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Good evening Doctor,

I hope things are well across the pond, we are getting ready for a heavy snow storm here in the Empire State.



AS with anything the issue is quality of build and parts availability.


seeing the few pictures of the Quad X rotary I would hesitate about buying it only because you have no idea about the wheel bearings as they only appear to be Bushings and I would not want this mower unless I specifically planned on changing the bushings each and every year!!!


The SCH towed motorised flail mowers use the rear roller as the main carrier when mowing and the rubber tired wheels for transport.

As with any flailmower the rear roller gives you a turf striper at no charge which is a plus if you have good turf.

The rear roller bearings and carrier wheel bearings are a concern with this flail mower. The other three issues for both SCH flail mower models are the mower hood thickness, the type of flail mower rotor that is installed and the side slicer or hammer knive mounting as it is not shown in the pictures given to the viewer.



The open flange bearings on the flail mower rotor are easy to replace or add pressurised grease cups with hoses to the bearings.

The big issue is the Flail Mower Rotor on this flail mower specifically.

The manufacturer has welded what appears to be a piece of angle iron to a small diameter rotor shaft and mounted the side slicers to the plate steel using three lengths of chain using bolts to secure the chain to the weldment.

The above in itself is very troublesome as you cannot see how the third row of side slicers is mounted to the supposed rotor asembly.



I can forward you a large amount of motorised flail mower information for your use to aid in your decision making. I can and will tell you what you need to look for in flailmower as far as wheel bearings and what will give
you no problems and a long life.


I have a 48 inch Mathews that is no longer manufactured and I would not be without it. I had my fathers 36 inch flail mower before this one and both of these units have collection baskets.


If you do not mind; please PM me with your E-mail so I can send detailed information to you for your use. It is somewhat difficult to go into great detail about this as the file uploading size is low.






There are about 20 models of towed motorised flailmowers+- that are available on your side of the Pond plus the ones built in Germany which I do not have current information about, as they are mostly large walk behind units and track drive remote control units. Before I forget it Makita offers a walk behind flailmower in Great Britain as well, I am unsure if it has a wheel driving mechanisim/gear box to aid in its movement.




LeonZ



_________________________________________________________________
Once you go flail you never go back:thumbsup::licking::drool:
Pronovost or not at all!!!:thumbsup::licking::drool:

 

[IslandTractor]

Hey Leonz,

Educate the rest of us regarding self powered flails. I've not come across any in the USA. Are there still any units sold in the US?

 

[leonz]

Hello Island Tractor,

Hope all is well,

I have been preparing for the weather they say
is coming east.

If anyone is lucky to find one of the old
Mott Interstaters that is a tow behind do
not hesistate to buy it even sight unseen.
as all they need is a bit of work and the
parts and bearings are generic.




I would love to find one of the old Mott
Interstater rear mounts that has the
four cylinder Wisconsin air cooled engines
on it.:drool::drool:

There is one flail mower that is made here and sold.
I will PM you with the name and the reseller.
I have mentioned it previously in one of my postings
that the construction is very poor in my opinion as the
mower shroud is too thin and the wheel bearings are simple
bushings that will fail and prevent you from assessing their
condition until its too late and the bore of the wheel is ruined.

Two exporters- Concept Agri and Wessex offer a heavy wheel bearing
option. These axles would allow you to install an oil lubricated axle assembly which is preferable to a greaded bushing any day as these wheels put a lot of milage on them.


I installed heavy roller bearings and new wheels and tires on my dads flailmower-the Mathews 48 inch Lawn Genie which he gave to me.
I have to get the other hoop shed up and the floor in it before I can bring it down from his new place as he can no longer start it, as the 33 year old 16 horse B+S I/C engine still has huge amount of compression on it. The new B+S V twins are an easy start engine and on most of the towed motorised european flails offered for sale.



_________________________________________________________________
Once you go flail you never go back:thumbsup::licking::drool:
Pronovost or not at all!!!:thumbsup::licking::drool: