O my, I am comfused

[s219]

A mindra dealer told me the their max 24 doesnt have a dpf filter. Which stated is a more friendly maintenace machine.

Mahidra canned the only Max model above 26HP that would have needed this. The Max 28 became the Max 26. So all their Max models are 26HP and lower now, and are exempt.

As far as I know, all the brands have taken this approach with subcompacts -- they just eliminated any models that would need to satisfy Tier IV Final and recertified them all for 26HP and below, so they only needed to satisfy Tier IV Interim.

 

[gladehound]

I don't know that "literally" applies . . but it paints a picture ;-)

You wrote: "Please don't assume you know what I pick up on. I've only made a few points in this thread and I've let many of your statements go because they aren't worth my time."

Lol . . good debate is with passion but not emotion. Sometimes good debate effort requires the other side to "show their hand" a bit. Many readers may not have recognized the "aw shucks" wasn't real. So I thought a little razzle dazzle might cause that to be dropped temporarily to show how sophisticated your debate training actually is.

You aren't crossing any lines with me Glade . . just dropping some of the "acting side" of things

I don't think of debate as a good thing or a bad thing . . Its a teaching snd learning thing. But for some . . "winning" is the thing and that's never been my focus so it also typically isn't my weakness

What is/was your profession?

I'll go first . . I like people . . so I've worked in lots of efforts where getting people to be positive and motivated is the key . . Using technical skills to have non-geeks actually use computers in complex ways of sales and creativity. Teaching sales and marketing people to actually sell instead of manipulate. Getting people smarter than they actually thought they were. I focus on appreciation rather than depreciation.

So how about you Glade? Where do all those debating skills and ability come from? (I think the "aw shucks" pretense is pretty much exhausted by now in readets eyes).

I have no debate training and I'm not acting. I like a good discussion that is thoughtful and supported by fact. Most of your statements are thoughtful. But I find it difficult to reason with you because you're logic is flawed. That is you'll describe something to support a point that doesn't actually support your point! When you assume to know what I think you are getting arrogant. I don't know if you believed it or not or if you are using some "technique". Either way, I found your approach irritating especially since it wasn't my intent to address your every point but only to comment on some of the more important ones. That beings said, you're obviously an OK guy - just a different style than me. I'm just not into all that sales and marketing flare. I always have found it annoying.

My profession includes many things but at its core is the generation of value arguments that are supported by evidence. Prior to this I was a health outcomes researcher. I leave the debating to others who are better at it than I (the marketing types who don't mind bending the truth a little to make a point).

And no - your GC1715 would not literally fit in my bucket. But since you had departed from reason, I figured accuracy and truth had already flown the coop!

No hard feelings. Now that I understand you a little better, I almost like you!... Almost... so don't push it! :tractor:

 

[AxleHub]

I have no debate training

My profession includes many things but at its core is the generation of value arguments that are supported by evidence. Prior to this I was a health outcomes researcher. I leave the debating to others who are better at it than I (the marketing types who don't mind bending the truth a little to make a point).

:

You are obviously well educated regarding logical progression and point counterpoint thinking.

You wrote: " the generation of value arguments that are supported by evidence."

I'd say thats the very heart of debate.

And I sense researcher or engineering type method would explain why you and I would spar in different ways . . much as chess players have such different styles.

But even more important is its good for tbn readers to see threads where debate exists and not just fast easy opinion expressed . . or a hostility demonstrated.

I've learned in my life that two of our most important natural resources in very short supply is common sense and creativity.

Real debate of our ancestors wasn't college or debate club based . . but vision and creativity based. Today imo we see too much politically correct communication. Toomuch "spin". Degrees are proof of wisdom when they really only demonstrate testing ability and the financing to get them. Our elderly carry an artisian well of acquired ability and knowledge yet we harvest almost none of it.

we believe more on a media or government survey link than we do in our forefathers who actually tested and pioneered the ideas.

Glade, you and I might not solve a single issue between us . . but we could sponsor fresh thinking or courage to get others to express thinking that could stimulate a new idea or new perspective.

At all education levels people have the potential to surprise others with great ideas and unexpected wisdom. Lord knows brevity has never been my companion. My best learning moments were from unlikely and humbling sources and situations.

And you and I had the oportunity to have 2 ideas that both can be correct at the same time

 

[PhysAssist]

Way to throw this discussion down the crapper :laughing:

I wish I had another witty repartee to flush that down with, but I'm cleaned out.

Too funny, and great advice from all sides here.

Sometime these discussions get heated and sink below the level of debate to name-calling, and I'm sure that I'm not the only here glad that this one hasn't [so far].

Thanks guys!
Thomas

PS: On thread comment: Please everyone keep in mind that the OP's initially expressed budget limitation was 15K, at least one poster recommended a 28K tractor to him.

 

[AxleHub]

PS: On thread comment: Please everyone keep in mind that the OP's initially expressed budget limitation was 15K, at least one poster recommended a 28K tractor to him.

I also noted how many times $20,000 tractors were mentioned. I kept my recommendation at $15,128 which included taxes mower deck and loader all with 5 year warranty and tires loaded.

 

[Ooklaa]

Meanwhile on planet earth, im still comfused, cause im stuck reading everything these guys are debating about i forgot what i was asking 3 pages ago lol.

All fun and games, im going tomorrow to go see a Mahindra dealer and the a john deere dealer. I hope its not a waste of time as the phone conversations have been a total waste. Im looking at a max 24, 26. John deere 1025r, 1026r and some 2 series. Loader and mower.. Some used some new. Well see what happens.

 

[PhysAssist]

I also noted how many times $20,000 tractors were mentioned. I kept my recommendation at $15,128 which included taxes mower deck and loader all with 5 year warranty and tires loaded.

Hi A-H,
Me too with the only real data I can relate- my purchase of our only new tractor ever a 2011 Kubota B2320 with 60" MMM, FEL, and ballast box- "thrown in" on the Kubota finance plan- which at the time was borrowing someone else's money for free, allowing my funds to recoup some of the funds that Gladehound [and others in this discussion] have attempted to make me feel stupid for spending by being invested for the 60 months during which they would have otherwise been tied up in my tractor ownership.

I believe we paid 15600 total with T&L. My dealer actually loaded my [rear] tires with Rimguard [for free] a year and a half after we bought it.

Thanks,
Thomas

 

[TomSeller]

I believe we paid 15600 total with T&L. My dealer actually loaded my [rear] tires with Rimguard [for free] a year and a half after we bought it.

Now that's a good dealer!

 

[PhysAssist]

Now that's a good dealer!

We actually liked the dealer better than we liked the tractor at that point, but our B2320 has grown on us.

He also threw in our 150 hour service when we had it in to get the hood and headlight replaced when I crushed them by curling the bucket with some lumber overhanging the top of it-covered by thr protection plan less $250.

That's MY story, and I'm sticking to it.
Thomas

 

[AxleHub]

We actually liked the dealer better than we liked the tractor at that point, but our B2320 has grown on us.

He also threw in our 150 hour service when we had it in to get the hood and headlight replaced when I crushed them by curling the bucket with some lumber overhanging the top of it-covered by thr protection plan less $250.

That's MY story, and I'm sticking to it.
Thomas

Now that is a dealer who understands the difference between sales and marketing.

 

[TomSeller]

Nice. Good dealers should be named on TBN with as much audience is here.

 

[Ooklaa]

Well i went and looked at Mahindra max 24 and a john deere 1025r. Both dealers were very nice. But both machine just disappointed me very much so. I guess the best way i can explain it is this, this is my very first time getting a actually tractor ever. I brought both machines to some dirt piles both dealers had kinda setup for demos. I put the loaders down to the ground level, full revs, 4wd and hit the gas to see if the maxhines would push the bucket into the dirt vs scrapping off the top. Maybe i did it wrong or whatever but neither of them pushed their way into the dirt pile. Both dealers said thats a rookie mistake as im trying to move a mound thats very heavy. I said o well but i assumed these have the tourqe to do this. I understand loosing tire grip but im buying a tractor to be able to not only lift heavy objects but also oush and pull heavy objects. Both dealers stated the approach you take make a hug differemce, i guess i took the Bull aproach which is heqd on brute force.

Anyways a learning curve is what i need no problem. Is the mahindra max24 a bigger machine the the john deere 1025r? Didnt have them side by side but the max did feel bigger.

The deere delaer did give me a good price quick at 15,900 h120 loader, 54 easy take off mower deck tax included.

Mahindra dealer didnt go into better pricing but said he would when i came back.

I feel the mahindra machine felt stronger and faster loader movements, also did not rev as high as the john deere which made it qiuter at full throttle.

Def want to get a grapple bucket of some type so i can pic things up.

 

[AxleHub]

Well i went and looked at Mahindra max 24 and a john deere 1025r.


Def want to get a grapple bucket of some type so i can pic things up.

Niko,

Unless the dirt pile is very densely packed . . I can't see why your bucket would not penetrate unless you had the backside of bucket lower than front side blade.

And grapples come in several sizes . . My favorite style is the "mini" grapple as it can pick up logs and rocks and get into tighter spots . . . same power as the full sizes is a smaller width.

Havw you located a Massey or Yanmar dealership yet?

P.S. to other readers . . Doesn't that jd 1025r bid sound low for j.d. typical pricing?

 

[jenkinsph]

Most dirt piles I have seen at dealerships are loose and easily fill a bucket. I suspect you just need more seat time.

 

[KennyG]

I'm sure either of these machines will pick up loose dirt with no problem. To get a machine that will get a full bucket with packed dirt, you would probably need to double the price. However, with a little work the smaller machines will eat away at it. One thing is that if you really want to do serious loader work, you need a box blade or ballast box to keep some weight on the back tires. If you don't have weight and have the bucket angled down, you will lose rear wheel traction immediately.

 

[dragoneggs]

Most dirt piles I have seen at dealerships are loose and easily fill a bucket. I suspect you just need more seat time.

Agreed... and when you really need to dig with your bucket, get a Piranha Tooth Bar.

 

[s219]

Keep in mind that front loaders are not bulldozers, so don't expect to do heavy pushing with them. But scooping dirt is all about technique, and it takes a little practice to get good at it. Also want to scoop off the middle to top of the pile to start off (weight of material above a full scoop only impedes progress and will spill out anyhow). Generally go into the pile with bucket level, and in one motion curl bucket back as you bite in. You'll get good at it after a while. I generally put the tractor in 4WD and low when nosing into piles, otherwise they will run out of steam or traction if the material is heavy or dense.

If you are thinking of spreading materials, the best way is to scoop and then dump with the bucket, and then back-drag with the heel of the bucket to spread. You can get real good at this. For grading and lots of dirt spreading, a box blade is even better, and it's great ballast for the loader.

My impression of the Deere SCUTS is that they felt a little light duty, and I did not like the plastic bodywork. But otherwise they are pretty good. Price was high though -- about the same as a larger Kubota B model -- which eventually led me in that direction for my first tractor. Back then a Deere 1026R with H120 front loader was the same price as a larger and more capable Kubota B2620 with front loader.

My next door neighbor has a Mahindra Max 28 and it's been a good little tractor. It has a very strong front loader, more capacity than that size tractor can comfortably handle I think (good ballast is super critical). I think it's built very solid and heavy duty, but the fit and finish is not as good as Deere or Kubota. Lots of rough edges and general lack of sophistication. The seat is low-budget, like from a lawn tractor. And the loader control is very abrupt and not amenable to finesse work like the controls I have used on Deeres and Kubotas. I think it's a good tractor but priced lower for a reason.

Another neighbor down the road got a Kubota BX 25D recently, which I looked at a few weeks ago. A little too small for my tastes to own one now that I have a big piece of property, but the build quality was top notch and I have to say I was jealous of that little backhoe. What a great little machine. If I was still living at my previous property in town, that would be the tractor to own for sure. I should have bought one of those when we lived there instead of busting my but with a wheelbarrow and shovel for 12 years. To me the BX is somewhat of a no-brainer for a SCUT shopper, and I think it's the market leader for very good reasons. There are definitely other good SCUTS out there, but you can almost not do any homework, buy a BX, and know it's near the head of the pack.

 

[gladehound]

But both machine just disappointed me very much so. I guess the best way i can explain it is this, this is my very first time getting a actually tractor ever. I brought both machines to some dirt piles both dealers had kinda setup for demos. I put the loaders down to the ground level, full revs, 4wd and hit the gas to see if the maxhines would push the bucket into the dirt vs scrapping off the top. Maybe i did it wrong or whatever but neither of them pushed their way into the dirt pile.

Maybe next time you can ask the sales person demonstrate the capabilities of the tractor to give you a better idea of what it will and wont be able to do if you think your technique is a factor.

If you do get a grapple on a SCUT, get the lightest grapple possible so that it doesn't use up your lift capacity.

Test some different size tractors as well and see what you think. Go at that same pile with a larger tractor and see if it performs more to your satisfaction. With my smaller tractor I would often struggle to get a full bucket in semi-loose material. It took a lot of finesse. It wasn't just the weight of the tractor either, it was the hydraulics - the bucket was a tad to big for the hydraulics. With the larger tractor I get a full bucket every time with no fuss, no finesse. Just drive in and lift or curl or both - doesn't matter.

 

[AxleHub]

Keep in mind that front loaders are not bulldozers, so don't expect to do heavy pushing with them. But scooping dirt is all about technique, and it takes a little practice to get good at it.


My impression of the Deere SCUTS is that they felt a little light duty, and I did not like the plastic bodywork. But otherwise they are pretty good. Price was high though -- about the same as a larger Kubota B model -- which eventually led me in that direction for my first tractor. Back then a Deere 1026R with H120 front loader was the same price as a larger and more capable Kubota B2620 with front loader.


My next door neighbor has a Mahindra Max 28 and it's been a good little tractor. It has a very strong front loader, more capacity than that size tractor can comfortably handle I think (good ballast is super critical). I think it's built very solid and heavy duty, but the fit and finish is not as good as Deere or Kubota. Lots of rough edges and general lack of sophistication. The seat is low-budget, like from a lawn tractor. And the loader control is very abrupt and not amenable to finesse work like the controls I have used on Deeres and Kubotas. I think it's a good tractor but priced lower for a reason.


To me the BX is somewhat of a no-brainer for a SCUT shopper, and I think it's the market leader for very good reasons. There are definitely other good SCUTS out there, but you can almost not do any homework, buy a BX, and know it's near the head of the pack.

S219, your neighbor's Mahindra max 28 . . . Didn't that just come out in the last 2 years ? I thought I read somewhere they are already replacing it because its Tier 4 situation is DEF and canister rgen required and that has been an issue of cost and inconvenience.

Your right that Kubota BX units are fine. But lets also remember that Kubota invented the scut market and had a decade lead on everybody else from 1997 (??) to 2006. While they continue to make great equipment their market share is now changing and yearly sales marketshare is changed quite a bit. Most Kubota dealers never even had a competitive or alternate scut line in their operations . . . but in my radius area of western WI .. . . all the Kubota dealers now carry a second competitive scut choice (at least the dozen+ that I checked).

And you're right about bucket technique but I didn't mention anything to Niko about that because in an earlier post he'd said he had driven lots of skid steer time.

Lastly . . Niko mentioned the jd 1025r he tested and was quoted . . I know 1026r units are considersbly more than his quote and I know what the 1023r is like. What is the differences in a 1025r vs a 1026r ?

 

[Ooklaa]

Yes i can know see it was my technique "bulldozer is not good". So i def will go look a kubota on my next day off. Yes the deere dealer gave a 15,900 out the door h120 loader and the easy off mower so the i dont have to engage the shaft lr whatever he said.

The plastic vs metal is not a game changer for me to be honest Nor is how fancy and ergonomics it is. Im looking for a strong bull per say. Strongest lifting, strongest pto, fastets hydraulics, stuff that means something on my property. Also something the has the safe under belly as immseeing alot of pictures of people hitting crap underneath a breaking hoses.

Do they make under belly protection?