Question on BX series loaders

Tom_H · Jun 22, 2004

Jim,

Just a few thoughts:

See my reply to your post re. types of tires; I doubt you need turf tires.

Though I prefer the BX, did you know Cub Cadet makes a tractor that is in the same class as the BX and the Massey Ferguson? It has both fel and bh. With NH and JD you have to go about a ton heavier & mucho $ more before you can get a bh. Anyhow, since you're doing such meticulous comparison & contrast, you might want to examine the specs on the CC. (It's all on their web site.)

The fel on a BX won't dig without a tooth bar. I'd recommend bolting it on because there may be occasions when you need to gently scoop soft material off of a smooth and costly pavement and not worry about scratching it. Bolts make on/off easy whereas if it's welded on you'll have to risk scratching or ripping someone's driveway.

Good luck,
Tom

jim_wilson · Jun 22, 2004

Thanks for the info Tom. I did a quick look at the Cub Cadets but could not find any info on a tractor from them that would take an FEL and a backhoe. Do you know what model it is? I was planning to have a the toothbar be a bolt on - I might use this to clear my driveway in the winter and figured the teeth wouldn't be good to have on when doing that.

8561 · Jun 22, 2004

Jim - try Townline Equipmwnt in Plainfield NH or Emerich Sales in Charlton NY. I might also try Pinnacleview. I believe Emerich will be cheapest including delivery to you.

BotaGuy · Jun 22, 2004

Tom,

I have to disagree with you on the BX loader. It will dig without the toothbar. In regular soils and such it actually digs quite well....better than I expected. I can only imagine how much better the tooth bar will be though.

Tom_H · Jun 22, 2004

( ( ...Cub Cadets...could not find...tractor...that would take...a backhoe...what model it is?)

All of their utility tractors take backhoes. In the 5000 series, I would not consider the gasoline twin cylinders, but the 5234D has a 3 cyl. diesel 23hp. It weighs less than the BX or the Massey Ferguson. It also has more hp at the PTO. Go to this link:

CC 5234D

If you click on the accessories link, it doesn't list a bh, BUT, if you go to the specifications link, it DOES indicate an optional backhoe. The overview page for the 5000 series tractors used to show a photo way down at the bottom of the page of a 5234D with a bh on it. For some reason, it's not there any more. I'm now wondering if they have withdrawn the bh, have erased the photo and taken the bh off the assessories page, but forgot that they had it listed on the specifications page /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Anyway, you might want to contact a dealer if you're really interested in pursuing every detail. The fact that their info. is a bit unclear along with their affiliation with MTD, having fewer dealers, and not having the good reputation of "Bota made me drop them from consideration.

Good luck,
Tom

ducati996 · Jun 22, 2004

( NO, I didn't break it up with the backhoe. I rented a Bosch electric jackhammer and it was not very effective. It took about an hour and lots of body punishing to break up one section of concrete....NOT FOR ME!! I rented a Bobcat 763 with a hydraulic breaker on the front...This is clearly the right tool for the job. It took about 45 minutes to break up the rest of the walk!!! It cost about $120 to rent the Bobcat and breaker but it was money well spent. Then I moved all of the concrete with the BX. The BX is like a little tank it will move an impressive amount of material. )

I would think the BX23 backhoe would be able to break that up with no problem correct ? It seemed like the perfect job for it

Duc

Tom_H · Jun 22, 2004

( ...BX loader...will dig without...toothbar...In regular soils...)

I have to admit, I don't have "regular" soil. I have hard clay. I have to rototill it into powder, but even then I can only grade along the ground so that it scoops into the bucket. Even when I'm scooping from a sandpile, I need inertia of forward momentum to fill the bucket. Can you actually have the tractor at a standstill and use the breakout force from the hydraulics to actually "dig" down into the ground the way a backhoe does? I have difficulty visualizing an LA211 doing that in anything except a sand dune or some other soil that's already been highly loosened. I can't imagine an LA211 at a standstill actually "digging" in packed loam using only breakout force and having no toothbar.

Junkman · Jun 22, 2004

( ....... I have difficulty visualizing an LA211 doing that in anything except a sand dune or some other soil that's already been highly loosened. I can't imagine an LA211 at a standstill actually "digging" in packed loam using only breakout force and having no tooth-bar.
)

I have a tooth-bar for my BX22 LA210 (virtually identical to the LA211 that is used on the BX1800/2200) loader and it is presently located in the garage on the floor. Haven't put it on the tractor yet this season, because there is nothing that I have found that I need it for. I have standing piles of loam that I purchase a few years ago. I buy them from a local farm that mixes manure into the piles, so I let them ferment for a while before use. My loader has no trouble digging in these piles that have been in place for 2 or 3 years. I can tell you that if I try to dig a pile with a shovel, that I will tire long before I get a wheel barrow full. The Kubota has no problem digging at all. In the morning I will post a picture of one of the piles that I dug in last week. The walls of the pile are still vertical from where I took out material with the bucket indicating that density of the pile. Don't underestimate the power of these little dynamo's of a tractor.. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

jim_wilson · Jun 22, 2004

I was mostly interested in the toothbar because I need to dig out sod - I had rented a Terramite before and tried digging this out and could not get anywhere with it. The bucket on that machine did not have a toothbar. I figure if the toothbar helps even a little bit then I will be happy. All the response I have gotten has been very helpful - Thanks

Junkman · Jun 22, 2004

If you want to dig out sod and reuse it, the tooth-bar will destroy it. If you don't care, then the tooth-bar will be great and make the job quick. Part of the trick of digging with the bucket is technique. This is something that you learn, but can't be explained or taught by reading a post. I have filled bar tires and they make digging a lot easier also. I have also filed a sharp edge on my bucket by doing snow removal with it this winter. It digs better this spring than when it was new. I believe that it is the sharp edge on the bucket that has made that difference for me. It also might be a senior moment not being able to remember last fall by comparison. Either way, you will love your new tractor and will rapidly learn to use it to its full potential. I had to go out to the garage for another picture, so I snapped one of the tooth-bar. If it wasn't so large, it might have gotten lost on the floor.... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif Cleaning that garage floor is on the list for the next rainy day. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

v8dave · Jun 23, 2004

If you still haven't made the deal on the BX23, get the dealer to weld some chain hooks on the end plates of the loader bucket. You can move some serious stuff that way. Welding on the end plates will keep the chain from flexing the unsupported bucket material (which might lead to a fatigue crack).

Attached pix is a bigger 'bota (a 7610), but gives you the idea.

Dave

BotaGuy · Jun 23, 2004

No, I can't stand still and dig a hole with the loader. I am not sure many tractors will do this either. I use 4wd and some forward progress and it digs very well. I have to tell you I was actually shocked at how well it did since I was comparing the loader to the small bobcat that the BX23 replaced. A tooth bar will help with sod, sod is tough.

jpr62902 · Jun 23, 2004

I'm callin' the cops on Junkman! He snuck into my house and took a pic of MY garage floor! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Tom_H · Jun 23, 2004

Junkman & BotaGuy,

I agree that a BX FEL will "scoop" soft material that is sitting in a pile which is elevated above the plane of flat ground. My soil is hard adobe clay. My LA211 won't scrape any of the flat surface away. When I run the tiller several times, I get a powder that is as fine as talcum powder. I can run the BX2200 at this stuff at full speed with the edge angled perhaps 4 to 5 degrees down from the horizon and scoop in small amounts, but the front edge of the loader still snags on rough edges in the underlying clay. The stuff is so hard that it absorbs the entire inertia of the tractor, bringing the BX to a complete stop. Only the seatbelt prevents me from flying over the steering wheel. A toothbar allows the teeth to break away bumpy places below the surface and allows the bucket to skip along (I guess like a rock skimming on water) without getting snagged. I'm glad to hear your reports of success with the BX FEL in your soils.

Can I trade 'ya my dirt for your dirt? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif People talk about "dirt cheap" but buying good topsoil is anything but cheap. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

jim_wilson · Jun 23, 2004

Thanks for the replies - sounds like getting a toothbar is a good idea. I had some previous experience with a Terramite a couple of years ago and when I tried to get that to dig into
the sod I couldnt even get it started. That is what made me think of the toothbar for the BX23. One of my first projects is going to be excavating into the gently sloping backyard to put in a foundation for a garage - I was hoping the toothbar might help me with some of the excavating instead of having to break everthing out with the backhoe then move it out with the FEL. From your answers it sounds like that might work for me. The other question I had is - in general - are more or less teeth better? The ezattachments stuff I looked at had a couple of different versions - one with a lot of teeth that they called the landscaper version for ripping out sod and stuff like that. I was thinking the more teeth I had the better I would cut into the dirt instead of using the flat edge of the FEL bucket

BotaGuy · Jun 23, 2004

Actually the less teeth you have, the more force is directed to each one which should provide better digging.

Rimmer · Jun 28, 2004

Not gonna wade through 37 messages to see if anyone else has addressed this... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Don't believe everything you read in slick brochures. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Here are the specs from the BX23 Workshop Manual (maybe you can't believe these either, I dunno...) /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

LA210-1 breakout force = 950 pounds
LA210-1 digging depth = 4.7 inches
LA210-1 max lift height = 71.3 inches

(For all their obvious intelligence, Kubota appears to have the occasional problem with converting from cgs to fps units, and also problems with differences between "English" and "Imperial" fluid capacities. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

jim_wilson · Jun 29, 2004

Thanks for the reply Rimmer. Looks like the 210 and the 211 loaders might just be the same thing after all. If so I wonder why they even bother to put different model numbers on them - seems like it would cause more of an inventory hassle than it would be worth. The reason why I asked this question in the first place is because I suspected that the specs might just be wrong - which is a problem that should be brought to Kubota's attention, when I was comparing the BX23 to the Massey GC2310TLB I was seriously tilting towards the Massey for a while and the biggest reason was the slightly better specs on the Massey loader over the Kubota. If the specs you put in your post were in the Kubota brochure it would make the two machines much more comparable to people just sitting around reading brochures.

UncleAl · Jun 29, 2004

Are these specs ever verified by anyone other than the manufacturer? I suspect the 2310 specs are "better" because MF knew what Kubota had already published and artificially set theirs slightly higher to sway potential buyers.... The only way to know is to put one of each head-to-head and let them duke (dig) it out... Maybe we can start a series on "The Learning Channel": SCUT WARS! !

jim_wilson · Jun 29, 2004

I was thinking that it would cool to do a Consumer Reports type of head to head comparison of the Kubota BX's, the Massey GC, NH TZ, and JD 2210. Compare specs and actually measure them, have a number of people try each one out etc. Tractorbynet could do buying reports to help people out with their purchase decisions.