Question on JCB swing cylinders
- Thread starter Richard
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Richard
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- International 1066 Full sized JCB Loader/Backhoe and a John Deere 430 to mow with
Wheels are still turning.
Picked up the two rebuilt cylinders yesterday. They had to load them as I can't lift one by myself. My neighbor (wifes cousin) is out of town for a week.....so nobody to help me lift them out of my trunk until he gets back. (we live very rural so not like I can just to to next neighbor)
Regardless:
1. Cylinders are back in my hands
2. Lower mounting plate has new grease cap welded on
3. Ordered a torque multiplier, it's on way
4. Replacement bolts are here, waiting assembly
5. Ordered a second 1 1/2" socket so I can hold the bolts while using my other 1 1/2" socket to tighten them
Several things in motion. I'm at a standstill right now with no extra muscle to pull cylinders out of trunk and some of the assembly parts aren't here yet (socket & torque multiplier)
Question.... I've not measured the bolt but it looks like it's about 1". The absolute size of it isn't relevant to my question.
Here's their torque chart.
If it is the 1" bolt, it calls for 715 lb/ft torque or, "for lubricated threads, REDUCED by one third"
What would be best used to lubricate them?
I've read things online stating that motor oil might be the best (which I found intersting....then again, "I read it on the internet")
Picked up the two rebuilt cylinders yesterday. They had to load them as I can't lift one by myself. My neighbor (wifes cousin) is out of town for a week.....so nobody to help me lift them out of my trunk until he gets back. (we live very rural so not like I can just to to next neighbor)
Regardless:
1. Cylinders are back in my hands
2. Lower mounting plate has new grease cap welded on
3. Ordered a torque multiplier, it's on way
4. Replacement bolts are here, waiting assembly
5. Ordered a second 1 1/2" socket so I can hold the bolts while using my other 1 1/2" socket to tighten them
Several things in motion. I'm at a standstill right now with no extra muscle to pull cylinders out of trunk and some of the assembly parts aren't here yet (socket & torque multiplier)
Question.... I've not measured the bolt but it looks like it's about 1". The absolute size of it isn't relevant to my question.
Here's their torque chart.
If it is the 1" bolt, it calls for 715 lb/ft torque or, "for lubricated threads, REDUCED by one third"
What would be best used to lubricate them?
I've read things online stating that motor oil might be the best (which I found intersting....then again, "I read it on the internet")
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Richard
Elite Member
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- 4,953
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- Knoxville, TN
- Tractor
- International 1066 Full sized JCB Loader/Backhoe and a John Deere 430 to mow with
BukitCase
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I read the entire page, and I would still use anti-sieze, just lower torque values - especially with the size fasteners you're talking about - in 35 years of heavy industrial maintenance I only saw a handful of problems using anti-sieze, and most could be attributed to ham-handed macho crap.
On the other side of that coin, I rarely saw NON anti-siezed fasteners come apart without damage requiring replacement - although to be fair, mine was a pretty toxic atmosphere - various acids and gases that (in many cases) required face shields, respirators, etc...
On my own equipment (the list on my profile is a small drop in the bucket) I always use anti-sieze except on hydraulic fittings, and have never had a problem with fastener damage that could be attributed to it - I do tend to under-torque somewhat, but not much. Being able to take something apart and put it back together without either a trip to town or ordering parts online is more important to me, sounds like it would be that way for you also.
As I get older (turned 70 earlier this month) I find that "material handling" is an important consideration if I want to continue doing the things I need/like to do - I would think that, given your (hopefully full) recovery situation, some of my "tricks" might be useful to you - here are a few items I've acquired over the years that've proved useful -
700 lb. Capacity Bigfoot Hand Truck
18 In x 12-1/4 In 1000 lb. Capacity Hardwood Dolly
Lever Chain Hoist - 3/4 Ton
1 ton Manual Chain Hoist
High Lift Riding Lawn Mower / ATV Lift
http://www.harborfreight.com/automo...0-lb-capacity-hydraulic-table-cart-60438.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/2-ton-capacity-foldable-shop-crane-60388.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/8-ton-long-ram-air-hydraulic-jack-94562.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/12-ton-capacity-pickup-truck-crane-with-cable-winch-60731-10018.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/1300-lb-electric-hoist-with-remote-control-60344-9376.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/1-ton-webbing-sling-44847.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/2-ton-capacity-heavy-duty-load-leveler-60659.html
And no, I don't work for Harbor Freight (well, sometimes it seems so
)
Here's a pic of the cherry picker helping me to fab a better base for a CL find - this slip roll will handle 1/4" plate without a grunt, and will roll 1" steel up to at least a foot wide. Note the replacement air/hydraulic jack on the cherry picker -
Here's the pick-up shop crane mounted on a 3'x5' steel table -
Eventually I'll replace the PITA winch with an electric one, it's kinda hard to reach but it still beats using my back...
Hopefully some of these will help you get things done easier - I know how much I rely on them... Steve
On the other side of that coin, I rarely saw NON anti-siezed fasteners come apart without damage requiring replacement - although to be fair, mine was a pretty toxic atmosphere - various acids and gases that (in many cases) required face shields, respirators, etc...
On my own equipment (the list on my profile is a small drop in the bucket) I always use anti-sieze except on hydraulic fittings, and have never had a problem with fastener damage that could be attributed to it - I do tend to under-torque somewhat, but not much. Being able to take something apart and put it back together without either a trip to town or ordering parts online is more important to me, sounds like it would be that way for you also.
As I get older (turned 70 earlier this month) I find that "material handling" is an important consideration if I want to continue doing the things I need/like to do - I would think that, given your (hopefully full) recovery situation, some of my "tricks" might be useful to you - here are a few items I've acquired over the years that've proved useful -
700 lb. Capacity Bigfoot Hand Truck
18 In x 12-1/4 In 1000 lb. Capacity Hardwood Dolly
Lever Chain Hoist - 3/4 Ton
1 ton Manual Chain Hoist
High Lift Riding Lawn Mower / ATV Lift
http://www.harborfreight.com/automo...0-lb-capacity-hydraulic-table-cart-60438.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/2-ton-capacity-foldable-shop-crane-60388.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/8-ton-long-ram-air-hydraulic-jack-94562.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/12-ton-capacity-pickup-truck-crane-with-cable-winch-60731-10018.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/1300-lb-electric-hoist-with-remote-control-60344-9376.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/1-ton-webbing-sling-44847.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/2-ton-capacity-heavy-duty-load-leveler-60659.html
And no, I don't work for Harbor Freight (well, sometimes it seems so
) Here's a pic of the cherry picker helping me to fab a better base for a CL find - this slip roll will handle 1/4" plate without a grunt, and will roll 1" steel up to at least a foot wide. Note the replacement air/hydraulic jack on the cherry picker -
Here's the pick-up shop crane mounted on a 3'x5' steel table -
Eventually I'll replace the PITA winch with an electric one, it's kinda hard to reach but it still beats using my back...Hopefully some of these will help you get things done easier - I know how much I rely on them... Steve
OP
Richard
Elite Member
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2000
- Messages
- 4,953
- Location
- Knoxville, TN
- Tractor
- International 1066 Full sized JCB Loader/Backhoe and a John Deere 430 to mow with
Looked at those items...(nice)
What caught my eye the most interestingly..... was the sling!
I was thinking I could perhaps thread it through both eyes of the cylinder.....strap it across my shoulders hoist with my legs...
Meh.... then I figured I'd be best served to wait until my neighbor gets home!
I will admit I'm a bit antsy to get some things done.
I could for example, (forgetting about hoisting the cylinder) The the cylinders hoisted, mounted back to the hydraulics. Get them pinned to the backhoe boom & snug the nuts down, waiting for my 2nd wrench to torque them.
Instead....I'm now going back outside to swing my manual pitchfork and spread some mulch around for the wife. :thumbsup:
What caught my eye the most interestingly..... was the sling!
I was thinking I could perhaps thread it through both eyes of the cylinder.....strap it across my shoulders hoist with my legs...
Meh.... then I figured I'd be best served to wait until my neighbor gets home!
I will admit I'm a bit antsy to get some things done.
I could for example, (forgetting about hoisting the cylinder) The the cylinders hoisted, mounted back to the hydraulics. Get them pinned to the backhoe boom & snug the nuts down, waiting for my 2nd wrench to torque them.
Instead....I'm now going back outside to swing my manual pitchfork and spread some mulch around for the wife. :thumbsup:
OP
Richard
Elite Member
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2000
- Messages
- 4,953
- Location
- Knoxville, TN
- Tractor
- International 1066 Full sized JCB Loader/Backhoe and a John Deere 430 to mow with
The rest of the story:
Saturday I drove my car into the field and lifted a cylinder to see if I'd be able to lift it. I could, so I pulled them out. Knowing this, I decided to see if I could put it back single-handedly. My neighbor wasn't due home until Monday night.
Stood cylinder on end, put a strap through it to hold it high. Put strap on other end and raised it with one hand while tightening strap with other. Worked fairly nice.
Main issue was the cylinder pivot really wanted to be VERY aligned with the pivot hole before it would go in. This caused some wrestling with it, lowering it, raising it.... cussing a bit. Finally got it in and tightened both straps to hold it.
Repeated same process with second cylinder and got it mounted.
turns out, this was the easy part.
The steel plate that bolts on underneath the cylinders.... well, this was the bugger.
It has four bolt holes so we have a pattern to match. Then, we have the two holes for the pivots of the cylinders.
I had two bolts installed and nothing would line up enough to make anything work. meanwhile, the plate (I'm guessing 50/60 pounds?) was wearing me out since I was trying to lift it while wrestling with it. It fell out of my hands many times. My focus was to not have it fall back on me.
keeping myself intact was pretty high on my list during this process.
finally, I made a quasi-sling so I could try to hold it with the sling while adjusting it with a free hand. This too, basically failed.
I finally took all but one bolt out to lower my alignment points. finally got it started in the right place so added a second bolt and threaded them with the nuts to at least keep the steel plate suspended and my hands free to do other things.
Got it mounted, torqued and greased up.
I also had to put the alternator back on. I took the alternator on this machine and the alternator on the tractor out to be checked out.
so, fixing the cylinders, mounting two alternators cost me the day. I started around 10:00 Saturday morning, quit around 8:00 that night with the hard part done.
Sunday, got up and greased everything and fired it up.
Everything is seeming to work as it should.
Nice side bonus.... the backhoe itself would bleed to the right side of the machine fairly easily. It would hardly ever bleed to the left side, only the right.
I figured I either had to rebuild the cylinders or, the valves (or maybe even both)
Now that I've rebuilt the cylinders, the swing of the hoe is vastly diminished (I mean, you could be on a small slope and just watch it swing 90 degrees in probably 30 seconds)
Now, I've not seen it swing at all but, I've not been on a slope yet. Regardless, if it now swings, I know I have to look at the valves.
Best of all, I still have my 10 fingers and 10 toes. Only a tiny bruise on my thumb nail and one or two on my arm.
I was however, worn out.
Saturday I drove my car into the field and lifted a cylinder to see if I'd be able to lift it. I could, so I pulled them out. Knowing this, I decided to see if I could put it back single-handedly. My neighbor wasn't due home until Monday night.
Stood cylinder on end, put a strap through it to hold it high. Put strap on other end and raised it with one hand while tightening strap with other. Worked fairly nice.
Main issue was the cylinder pivot really wanted to be VERY aligned with the pivot hole before it would go in. This caused some wrestling with it, lowering it, raising it.... cussing a bit. Finally got it in and tightened both straps to hold it.
Repeated same process with second cylinder and got it mounted.
turns out, this was the easy part.
The steel plate that bolts on underneath the cylinders.... well, this was the bugger.
It has four bolt holes so we have a pattern to match. Then, we have the two holes for the pivots of the cylinders.
I had two bolts installed and nothing would line up enough to make anything work. meanwhile, the plate (I'm guessing 50/60 pounds?) was wearing me out since I was trying to lift it while wrestling with it. It fell out of my hands many times. My focus was to not have it fall back on me.
keeping myself intact was pretty high on my list during this process.
finally, I made a quasi-sling so I could try to hold it with the sling while adjusting it with a free hand. This too, basically failed.
I finally took all but one bolt out to lower my alignment points. finally got it started in the right place so added a second bolt and threaded them with the nuts to at least keep the steel plate suspended and my hands free to do other things.
Got it mounted, torqued and greased up.
I also had to put the alternator back on. I took the alternator on this machine and the alternator on the tractor out to be checked out.
so, fixing the cylinders, mounting two alternators cost me the day. I started around 10:00 Saturday morning, quit around 8:00 that night with the hard part done.
Sunday, got up and greased everything and fired it up.
Everything is seeming to work as it should.
Nice side bonus.... the backhoe itself would bleed to the right side of the machine fairly easily. It would hardly ever bleed to the left side, only the right.
I figured I either had to rebuild the cylinders or, the valves (or maybe even both)
Now that I've rebuilt the cylinders, the swing of the hoe is vastly diminished (I mean, you could be on a small slope and just watch it swing 90 degrees in probably 30 seconds)
Now, I've not seen it swing at all but, I've not been on a slope yet. Regardless, if it now swings, I know I have to look at the valves.
Best of all, I still have my 10 fingers and 10 toes. Only a tiny bruise on my thumb nail and one or two on my arm.
I was however, worn out.
BukitCase
Elite Member
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Wow, good job - I tend to "collect" old sayings and euphemisms, and one that best fits this is "Any time I can learn/do something with no loss of body parts, it's been a GOOD day..."
If the new bolts are exactly the same length as the old ones, did you decide to protect the protruding threads with another nut, or is there even enough threads to hold a second nut? Looked kinda close to me... Steve
If the new bolts are exactly the same length as the old ones, did you decide to protect the protruding threads with another nut, or is there even enough threads to hold a second nut? Looked kinda close to me... Steve
OP
Richard
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- 4,953
- Location
- Knoxville, TN
- Tractor
- International 1066 Full sized JCB Loader/Backhoe and a John Deere 430 to mow with
Nope, no room (in my opinion)
I am guessing that I have three, maybe four full threads showing and that's it. Regardless the number of threads showing, it's not enough to fill the second nut.
I am guessing that I have three, maybe four full threads showing and that's it. Regardless the number of threads showing, it's not enough to fill the second nut.
BukitCase
Elite Member
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You don't need to fill the second nut, but if there are enough threads to HOLD the second nut it will protect the protruding threads against damage, making it easier to remove the bolts if there's a NEXT time... Steve