Well Pump Planing???
- Thread starter dieselscout80
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DaveOmak
Platinum Member
[*]Depth - 150
[*]Casing depth -130
[*]Static water Level 30
[*]Yield - 50 GPM
dieselscout,
Static water level means if you measure down the well, you will find water at 30 feet.
With your well you could set the pump anywhere between 100-140 feet.
Pumping less than 40GPM the well should not run out of water.
Using a five gallon bucket and a stop watch, Check your showers, sinks etc and see how long it takes to fill the bucket.
How many faucets , showers do you use at one time? Include lawn sprinklers etc.
If if takes 1 min 30 sec to fill the bucket at each location, you are using 3.4 gal/min per location. If you think you will have 3 faucets on at any time, you are using 10.2 GPM.
Most faucets are on for only a few seconds. Low flow shower heads are about 1.5 GPM.
Investigate you needs and plan accordingly with maybe a 50% cushion.
Overkill is expensive in the long run.
Everyone here has some good points.
I notice the internet prompts. You can learn lots from the net.
Don't hesitate to return with your plans if you have questions.
Dave
[*]Casing depth -130
[*]Static water Level 30
[*]Yield - 50 GPM
dieselscout,
Static water level means if you measure down the well, you will find water at 30 feet.
With your well you could set the pump anywhere between 100-140 feet.
Pumping less than 40GPM the well should not run out of water.
Using a five gallon bucket and a stop watch, Check your showers, sinks etc and see how long it takes to fill the bucket.
How many faucets , showers do you use at one time? Include lawn sprinklers etc.
If if takes 1 min 30 sec to fill the bucket at each location, you are using 3.4 gal/min per location. If you think you will have 3 faucets on at any time, you are using 10.2 GPM.
Most faucets are on for only a few seconds. Low flow shower heads are about 1.5 GPM.
Investigate you needs and plan accordingly with maybe a 50% cushion.
Overkill is expensive in the long run.
Everyone here has some good points.
I notice the internet prompts. You can learn lots from the net.
Don't hesitate to return with your plans if you have questions.
Dave
Please take the advice of earlier posters and buy a quality pump at a plumbing supply house vs. the Lowes grade pumps. When we put in our submersible oh, 7-8 years ago, it really didn't cost a whole lot more for a quality pump vs. the offerings at Lowes...our well is 340 feet deep and produces about 4 GPM...we also put one of those "packers" on it that produces a vacuum in the well...our water flow isn't high, but it is steady and a very reliable well, even during summer droughts. Do rig a safety line, too (I know of people that have pulled submersible pumps only to have the pipe break and the pump drops back down and a pro has to be called in to fish it out)
mike69440
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Just to add cost and complication to your project, consider adding a frost free hydrant near the well head. Also wrap heat tape around the Frost free hydrant just in case. Use plenty of stone for drainage. If you can figure a clever way for a hand pump, do that, if the water table is normally high enough. My old home had a true artisan well and that was great when we lost power or just wanted to irrigate.
OP
dieselscout80
Veteran Member
I've been quoted $1500.00 to pull and replace the pump by two places. The one place said it takes about 4 hours to pull and replace the pump.
I'm thinking that it maybe smart to just keep an extra $1500 in savings to cover the job becuase I'm sure it would take me a longer than 4 hours top do this and I'd have rig up to do it and that might cost a bit too.
I'm thinking that it maybe smart to just keep an extra $1500 in savings to cover the job becuase I'm sure it would take me a longer than 4 hours top do this and I'd have rig up to do it and that might cost a bit too.
Sounds about right, it's a fairly simple job, longest part is getting everything ready (pipes laid out and connected, wiring run up the pipe and secured, etc)
We did it ourselves without any specialized equipment, just about 4 people. For our pump, pipe, wire, electrical box, etc it all came out to about $1100 back when we put our new pump in.
OP
dieselscout80
Veteran Member
Well this year has been a hot dry one and we have been having to water pasture just to have grass. The watering has dropped the water pressure in the house by a noticeable amount which has got me thinking about my pump/pressure tank layout.
I have plenty of water in my well.
From well data plate:
Depth - 150
Casing depth -130
Diameter - 6
Screen Interval - blank to blank
Gravel Depth - looks like 0.2 (may just be zero) to 20
Static water Level 30
Yield - 50 GPM
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/195605-well-pump-planing-2.html#post2246955
I'm thinking of moving the pressure tank to my crawl space and installing a check valve so that water can only flow into the house. I'm thinking that this will let the pump run all the time when outside watering is being done and the pressure tank in the crawl space will keep the house pressure normal till the pressure tank empties. My pressure tank is 25 gal and I've thought I might want to add a second tank to keep the pressure high for longer.
PVC check valve
Shop AMERICAN VALVE 3/4" PVC Check Valve Socket at Lowes.com
Does this sound like a good idea?
I have plenty of water in my well.
From well data plate:
Depth - 150
Casing depth -130
Diameter - 6
Screen Interval - blank to blank
Gravel Depth - looks like 0.2 (may just be zero) to 20
Static water Level 30
Yield - 50 GPM
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/195605-well-pump-planing-2.html#post2246955
I'm thinking of moving the pressure tank to my crawl space and installing a check valve so that water can only flow into the house. I'm thinking that this will let the pump run all the time when outside watering is being done and the pressure tank in the crawl space will keep the house pressure normal till the pressure tank empties. My pressure tank is 25 gal and I've thought I might want to add a second tank to keep the pressure high for longer.
PVC check valve
Shop AMERICAN VALVE 3/4" PVC Check Valve Socket at Lowes.com
Does this sound like a good idea?
Egon
Epic Contributor
You will still only achieve pump output watering pressure in the house.
Unless you close the valves to the watering lines.
what about the pressure switch settings and sensing points?
Unless you close the valves to the watering lines.
what about the pressure switch settings and sensing points?
DaveOmak
Platinum Member
Diesel Scout, Morning.
Have you determined the GPM the well pump puts out?
Measure that at 40 PSI. That will give you the amount of water you can use at a fairly good pressure.
If the flow and pressure are minimal, nothing you can do at the pressure tank will allow you irrigate and use the house at the same time and keep good flow and pressure.
Solution: Match a new submersible pump to your required needs......house + irrigation etc
Doing the project right this time will be the least expensive in the long run.
Have you determined the GPM the well pump puts out?
Measure that at 40 PSI. That will give you the amount of water you can use at a fairly good pressure.
If the flow and pressure are minimal, nothing you can do at the pressure tank will allow you irrigate and use the house at the same time and keep good flow and pressure.
Solution: Match a new submersible pump to your required needs......house + irrigation etc
Doing the project right this time will be the least expensive in the long run.
OP
dieselscout80
Veteran Member
But only once the pressure tank/s are empty correct?
Do you have a filter on the line? I notice my flow drops off a lot once the filter is full of sand/grit. Replace the filter cartridge and I'm right back to happy with it. And of course they clog up faster when I'm using more, or the level in the well is lower resulting in more grit in the water.
Whenever we have the well serviced, pulling the pump takes an hour or less, they use a roller head in place of the well cap and pull it by hand, no fancy winches or hoists or anything. It's fussing with the connections for plumbing and electric that seem to be the most time consuming part of it.
After watching them pull their hair, even knowing everything they had to do, I was just as glad I hired the guys to do it. It would have taken me about three days to get everything hooked up, between multiple trips to the store for stuff that I forgot/wrong size, stops to research "does this look right"? etc. that only takes them an afternoon.
Between the hard water and the grit, we're hard on pumps. I second the vote for getting something a bit better than the box store stuff.
DaveOmak
Platinum Member
Diesel Scout............
I'm confused......what is your goal in this project.......
Please define your goal so we can help you figure out what you need.
I'm confused......what is your goal in this project.......
Please define your goal so we can help you figure out what you need.
Egon
Epic Contributor
But only once the pressure tank/s are empty correct?
That may all be dependant on the well planning!
That may all be dependant on the well planning!
OP
dieselscout80
Veteran Member
Three things (all are equal priorities and cost is a factor)-
Maintain normal pressure in house when irrigating/filling pond.
Max possible water/psi for irrigating/filling pond.
Ensure max longevity of well pump.
I want my cake and ice-cream too. :licking:
Damifino
Gold Member
That may all be dependent on the well planning!
[/quote]What Egon said :thumbsup:
I guess since were all talking hypothetically here, I would think while trying to drink champagne on a beer budget, one could install a house storage tank with check valve between pump & tank.
The pond filler line without a tank with a valve to throttle down to where pump would still generate enough back pressure to still supply pressure at house tank, again all dependent on well planning as Eagon stated.
Totally dependent on pump gpm and what well will supply.
That's my :2cents: hypothetically
DaveOmak
Platinum Member
Diesel Scout, Afternoon.
There are 2 good ways to do this.
First you need to determine the pressure you want..
probably 50 psi minimum for irrigation.
GPM @ 50 psi
Sprinkler nozzles are rated at GPM/psi..say 3.5GPM@50psi
say 5 sprinklers = 17.5GPM@50psi
If you want to run 2 faucets in the house @3GPM = 6GPM
17.5+6 GPM = 23.5 GPM @ 50psi That is the pump you need in the well.........
Option # 2
Install a cistern/storage tank for irrigation only. Say 3000 gallons.
Have it fill during the night and have a stand alone pump for irrigation.
This option allows for the current pump to be used for the house and irrigation tank.
The tank will fill in 5 hours @ 10 GPM.
The best part of the #2 option is pump life. Pumps last longer if they do not cycle on/off.
I am sure there are many variations to these options.
Purchase the best you can afford. It will repay you times over..Dave
There are 2 good ways to do this.
First you need to determine the pressure you want..
probably 50 psi minimum for irrigation.
GPM @ 50 psi
Sprinkler nozzles are rated at GPM/psi..say 3.5GPM@50psi
say 5 sprinklers = 17.5GPM@50psi
If you want to run 2 faucets in the house @3GPM = 6GPM
17.5+6 GPM = 23.5 GPM @ 50psi That is the pump you need in the well.........
Option # 2
Install a cistern/storage tank for irrigation only. Say 3000 gallons.
Have it fill during the night and have a stand alone pump for irrigation.
This option allows for the current pump to be used for the house and irrigation tank.
The tank will fill in 5 hours @ 10 GPM.
The best part of the #2 option is pump life. Pumps last longer if they do not cycle on/off.
I am sure there are many variations to these options.
Purchase the best you can afford. It will repay you times over..Dave
OP
dieselscout80
Veteran Member
Dave,
I timed filling a 5 gal bucket outside this evening and it takes between 15 -17 seconds to fill that 5 gal bucket (timed it 3x). The spigot used is about 80' from the well connected by 1" PVC most of the way and then 3/4" for the last 20' or so. I also tried it in the basement tub and it took about 1 min 30 seconds to fill that is on 1/2"cpvc line.
Carey
DaveOmak
Platinum Member
Carey, Morning.
With those numbers, your well pump is putting out really good flow. Considering you measured the flow about 80' from the well, thru 1" pipe and then 3/4" pipe, and getting about 20 GPM, I would "guess" the pump is capable of at least 30 GPM. The flow thru the 1" and 3/4" pipe has maxed out the flow due to friction in the pipe and it's length.
Now....what size pipe is in the well casing ?? Hopefully it is 1 1/4" galvanized or larger. If not, I would change it to 1 1/4" or 1 1/2". That amount of flow should not go thru a 1" pipe.
That being said, if it is 1 1/4", I would replumb from the well to the house with 1 1/4" sched 40 pvc. Then run 1" sched 40 cpvc around the house in a circle so there is a loop. Then come off the loop with 1/2" to all the fixtures and 3/4" to outside faucets. The reason for the loop is to provide equal pressure at all faucets no matter which one is on. It is the new way to plumb houses. If you are doing the work it is cheap. The same can be done with the hot water while you are at it. Be sure to use a 1" supply to the HW tank and loop with 1" to keep flow uniform and 1/2" supply to fixtures. You will not be unhappy with the quality of the water supply to all the fixtures. This may seem overkill but for the few cents extra on plumbing, considering the time involved, it will be worth it. You may also want to consider PEX tubing and sharkbite fittings. It is EASY to install.
For the irrigation, run 1 1/4" as far as is practical teeing off to 1" pvc for valves and sprinklers. You can safely use 3/4" ball valves on 1" lines for sprinklers. The pressure/flow drop thru a 3/4" ball valve is insignificant in the overall scheme of things. Try not to install more than 3 sprinklers on each 1" irrigation leg. If the sprinklers are 2.5 GPM (orange nozzles) you should be able to run 6 at one time and still have plenty of water for the house. I irrigate with orange sprinkler nozzles and run them for 12 hrs twice/week to get 1.5" equivalent rain/week for alfalfa.
PS..If the pump in the well is threaded for 1" pipe, bush it up to at least 1 1/4". The resistance in galvanized pipe is horrible. You really lose flow thru it. Or use that black "poly" and be sure to use "torque arrestors". See your local well supplier for parts etc.
Dave
Last edited:
OP
dieselscout80
Veteran Member
Dave,
I think it's 1" out of the well.
This post shows the pics of the setup.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/195605-well-pump-planing-2.html#post2246476
I think what i need to do is run 1.5" out for sprinkling.
Is it best to use PVC, Poly or Pex for this the runs would have to be plus 300'.
