Welder / Wiring for Small Garage

[dieselscout80]

Interesting

Thanks

 

[dieselscout80]

Yep. If I had a 110/220 capable welder, and I was going to run a new circuit, I'd just go with the 220 circuit.

Im wiring the whole garage from the beginning.

 

[MAX-24-Dean]

All, question on wiring and breaker for my personal use small garage.

I have a 50 amp circuit from my house to the garage on 6/3 wire (black, red, white and ground).

I planned to wire a 30 amp circuit for welding with 8/3 wire, but is that enough for say a Hobart Handler 210MVP or a Mult-Handler 200 Multiprocess? I wouldn’t ever need to weld anything thicker than 3/8”.


Handler® 210 MVP™ MIG Welder | HobartWelders

Multi-Handler 200 Multiprocess Welder | HobartWelders

Will a 30 amp circuit with 8/3 work?

Will a 30 amp circuit with 8/3 work? yes, but if inspected it may get a correction notice.

MVP 210 gives a minimum conductor size as #14 copper (see note 4 on sheet). Edit: text moved from here to below.

HOB Multi-Handler gives a minimum conductor size of #12 copper (See note 5 on sheet) Or MC cable concealed in a wall if exposed to damage.
Edit in bold to indicate text moved to correct location: but must be rated for 75 degree C. Which would limit you to individual conductors in conduit. Or MC cable concealed in a wall if it is exposed to physical damage.

This will get you by an inspector if this is being inspected.

Personally, I would use the 240 volt option with #12 thhn in conduit with a 30 amp breaker for the Multi handler. Your mileage may vary?
Same for the MVP 210, but use a 25 amp breaker. Again, your mileage may vary?
Up the breaker size to the next size if they trip.

 

[dieselscout80]

Will a 30 amp circuit with 8/3 work? yes, but if inspected it may get a correction notice.

MVP 210 gives a minimum conductor size as #14 copper (see note 4 on sheet), but must be rated for 75 degree C. Which would limit you to individual conductors in conduit. Or MC cable concealed in a wall if it is exposed to physical damage.

HOB Multi-Handler gives a minimum conductor size of #12 copper (See note 5 on sheet) Or MC cable concealed in a wall if exposed to damage.

This will get you by an inspector if this is being inspected.

Personally, I would use the 240 volt option with #12 thhn in conduit with a 30 amp breaker for the Multi handler. Your mileage may vary?
Same for the MVP 210, but use a 25 amp breaker. Again, your mileage may vary?
Up the breaker size to the next size if they trip.


View attachment 807229View attachment 807240

Pardon me not understanding your first comment.

Why would larger cable be cause for a correction notice?

Note the wires are being run inside the walls.

 

[MAX-24-Dean]

Pardon me not understanding your first comment.

Why would larger cable be cause for a correction notice?

Note the wires are inside the walls.

Why would larger cable be cause for a correction notice? Because it is rated for 60 degree C per Art 334.80.
Sorry about not being clear, Some inspectors just don't like seeing romex on a welding circuit.

See note 5 from the multi handler sheet about 75 degree C conductors.
Copied and pasted below for clarity.

5. Raceway conductor data in this section specifies conductor size (excluding flexible cord or cable) between the panelboard and the equipment per NEC Table 310.15(B)(16) and is based on allowable ampacities of insulated copper conductors having a temperature rating of 75°C (167°F) with not more than three single current−carrying conductors in a raceway.


If you look closely at the sheets from the manuals in my previous post, you will see that I messed up, as only the multi handler has the 75 degree C note for copper conductors. My error.
But in general, manufacturers instructions usually include verbage about the 75 degree C conductor between the panel board and the equipment. As in the note 5 above.

 

[WranglerX]

Also NATIONAL ELECTRIC CODE (NEC) has special section for welding circuits that differ from your electric stove, air compressor, electric drier, well pump circuits.... Hard to believe a inspector would ding a installation for over sized wire....

 

[Deleted member 371759]

Not how to do it, but how I did it. 30 amp breaker #10 Romex to 50 amp generic plug. I made a 20Ft extension cord from 10/3 from home depot. My welder draws 26 amps full out. Never popped a breaker, nothing has went up in flames yet, and I burn through 125cu/ft tank of argon every 25 or so days.

 

[MAX-24-Dean]

Also NATIONAL ELECTRIC CODE (NEC) has special section for welding circuits that differ from your electric stove, air compressor, electric drier, well pump circuits.... Hard to believe a inspector would ding a installation for over sized wire....

There not looking at the oversized wire, but the 60 degree C rating for the wire. When a lot of welder manufacturers specify 75 degree C (or higher rating) wire for branch and feeder circuits to welders as the only wiring method allowed.
Manufacturers written installation instructions supercede the NEC.
I had more inconsistent dealings with inspectors (in different juridictions) concerning welders than any other install I did.

 

[hummertom]

30 amps will work fine on 8/3 even on 10/3, but if you are running 240v use 8/2 or 10/2 either with ground, we never count the ground in the conductor count, also voltage drop won't need to be considered until over 125', and at 240v 8/2 with ground would take VD off the problem. Was electrical contractor for over 40 yrs in rule rich CA.

 

[dieselscout80]

I had 8/3 wire (3 insulated wires & a ground) and I have a Hobart plug adapter to go from a 4 prong (dryer type) plug to a 3 prong plug.

 

[DaBear3428]

pulled a page from the owners manual 24 amps on 240 volt so that is 80% of a 30amp circuit breaker so you will need a 30 amp CB and #10 wire unless it is a really long run.

 

[OzzyDaveO]

All, question on wiring and breaker for my personal use small garage.

I have a 50 amp circuit from my house to the garage on 6/3 wire (black, red, white and ground).

I planned to wire a 30 amp circuit for welding with 8/3 wire, but is that enough for say a Hobart Handler 210MVP or a Mult-Handler 200 Multiprocess? I wouldn’t ever need to weld anything thicker than 3/8”.


Handler® 210 MVP™ MIG Welder | HobartWelders

Multi-Handler 200 Multiprocess Welder | HobartWelders

Will a 30 amp circuit with 8/3 work?

Based on the specs (of the leads) (115 V, 15 A)
What you really need to know is the distance from the mains supply point, all the way so the welder, and keep voltage drop to under 3V at full welder load on the mains (15A).
From there you can calc the required MIN cable size (assuming nothing else is using that cct at the same time).
Not sure how to calc that, ask one of your sparkie mates to calc it for you (assumig you want it certified for insurance reasons).

 

[CoyPatton]

It does, but it also shows a 50 amp plug for 220 volts.

The answer to your requirements is in the printed information under the voltage/amps chart. It states that the power cord is 240v 50 amps.
Good luck plugging that 50 amp cord into a 30 amp receptacle. If you replace it with a 30 amp plug—bye bye bye to your warranty.
The chart also shows in the last column 34 max amps.
I would do 1 central 50 amp plug centered on the non 30’ wall and build up 1 50 amp cord to be able to reach several feet out of the bay doors (50 feet?).

 

[Deleted member 371759]

The answer to your requirements is in the printed information under the voltage/amps chart. It states that the power cord is 240v 50 amps.
Good luck plugging that 50 amp cord into a 30 amp receptacle. If you replace it with a 30 amp plug—bye bye bye to your warranty.
The chart also shows in the last column 34 max amps.
I would do 1 central 50 amp plug centered on the non 30’ wall and build up 1 50 amp cord to be able to reach several feet out of the bay doors (50 feet?).

His welder draws a max of 24 amps. A 30 amp breaker with #10 romex to a 50A outlet will be fine.

 

[Gord Baker]

All, question on wiring and breaker for my personal use small garage.

I have a 50 amp circuit from my house to the garage on 6/3 wire (black, red, white and ground).

I planned to wire a 30 amp circuit for welding with 8/3 wire, but is that enough for say a Hobart Handler 210MVP or a Mult-Handler 200 Multiprocess? I wouldn’t ever need to weld anything thicker than 3/8”.


Handler® 210 MVP™ MIG Welder | HobartWelders

Multi-Handler 200 Multiprocess Welder | HobartWelders

Will a 30 amp circuit with 8/3 work?

I would suggest getting the House rewired for 100 Amp Service and run a line to the Garage as well with new panel.

 

[Deleted member 371759]

I would suggest getting the House rewired for 100 Amp Service and run a line to the Garage as well with new panel.

This is getting hilarious. I suggest a new house. with 3 phase.

 

[BruceMyers48]

All, question on wiring and breaker for my personal use small garage.

I have a 50 amp circuit from my house to the garage on 6/3 wire (black, red, white and ground).

I planned to wire a 30 amp circuit for welding with 8/3 wire, but is that enough for say a Hobart Handler 210MVP or a Mult-Handler 200 Multiprocess? I wouldn’t ever need to weld anything thicker than 3/8”.


Handler® 210 MVP™ MIG Welder | HobartWelders

Multi-Handler 200 Multiprocess Welder | HobartWelders

Will a 30 amp circuit with 8/3 work?

You shouldn't use 8/3 for a 30 amp breaker, the coded size for 30 amp is # 10 wire, any size larger than that with a 30 amp breaker could cause a problem. It would take longer for a breaker to trip

 

[charlessenf]

All, question on wiring and breaker for my personal use small garage.

I have a 50 amp circuit from my house to the garage on 6/3 wire (black, red, white and ground).

I planned to wire a 30 amp circuit for welding with 8/3 wire, but is that enough for say a Hobart Handler 210MVP or a Mult-Handler 200 Multiprocess? I wouldn’t ever need to weld anything thicker than 3/8”.


Handler® 210 MVP™ MIG Welder | HobartWelders

Multi-Handler 200 Multiprocess Welder | HobartWelders

Will a 30 amp circuit with 8/3 work?

Why not run a circuit using the 6/3 from the box in the garage to the outlet for whichever welder you get? I did 8/3 (about fifty feet to my garage) and run an old Tombstone w/o issue. But, I learned later that I should have run 6/3 cover my bases. Running 6/3 to the shop, then running an 'extension' in 8/3 to the weld doesn't sound like a great idea. However, I am not a certified electrician by any stretch.
You did not mention the distance from house to shop or the AMPS of the Main House Panel (my old homestead's only got a fifty-amp panel!) but it seems to work just fine!

 

[Deleted member 371759]

Why not run a circuit using the 6/3 from the box in the garage to the outlet for whichever welder you get? I did 8/3 (about fifty feet to my garage) and run an old Tombstone w/o issue. But, I learned later that I should have run 6/3 cover my bases. Running 6/3 to the shop, then running an 'extension' in 8/3 to the weld doesn't sound like a great idea. However, I am not a certified electrician by any stretch.
You did not mention the distance from house to shop or the AMPS of the Main House Panel (my old homestead's only got a fifty-amp panel!) but it seems to work just fine!

Because none of that is needed. Why would you double the amp carrying capacity thats needed? Most newer IGBT welders have low max inrush amperage. You would need one serious welder to need #6 romex. #6 will carry 55A. #8 will carry 40 amps. 8/3 extension cord the voltage drop @230V at 50 feet will be .030% and the voltage will be 229.93V

 

[aircommuter]

Will a 30 amp circuit with 8/3 work? yes, but if inspected it may get a correction notice.

MVP 210 gives a minimum conductor size as #14 copper (see note 4 on sheet). Edit: text moved from here to below.

HOB Multi-Handler gives a minimum conductor size of #12 copper (See note 5 on sheet) Or MC cable concealed in a wall if exposed to damage.
Edit in bold to indicate text moved to correct location: but must be rated for 75 degree C. Which would limit you to individual conductors in conduit. Or MC cable concealed in a wall if it is exposed to physical damage.

This will get you by an inspector if this is being inspected.

Personally, I would use the 240 volt option with #12 thhn in conduit with a 30 amp breaker for the Multi handler. Your mileage may vary?
Same for the MVP 210, but use a 25 amp breaker. Again, your mileage may vary?
Up the breaker size to the next size if they trip.


View attachment 807229View attachment 807240

#12 is 20 amp rated not 30.