Tractor Sizing Almost Daily Thread: SUBCOMPACT or COMPACT TRACTOR?

   / Almost Daily Thread: SUBCOMPACT or COMPACT TRACTOR? #51  
Steve, that's a great article. With that many gas engines sitting idle between jobs I'm curious what gasoline you use and if you have any special tips on gasoline and gasoline engines.
Thanks,
rScotty
 
   / Almost Daily Thread: SUBCOMPACT or COMPACT TRACTOR? #52  
rScotty,
I don't use any special gasoline. Whatever they have at the local "GetGo" (non branded but top tier) unleaded and sometimes Premium unleaded. I don't add fuel stabilizer regularly either but do add it sometimes as well as some neutralizing ethanol products but usually not on those either. No real special tips. I do have a snowmobile and i do drain the fuel tank throughout the year as i always run premium in it and usually non ethanol premium if it's available when out of town. I then siphon off that gas slowly during the summer months and then refill it in the fall time with fresh. That snowmobile is fuel injected so gas that's old can be a factor. Hence why i keep it clean.

Steve
 
   / Almost Daily Thread: SUBCOMPACT or COMPACT TRACTOR?
  • Thread Starter
#53  
BX or B??
Property is 8 acres. Flat but bumpy old farmland which hasnt been cared for in 2-3 years.

BX series tractor are best regarded as wonderful lawn mowers with the ability to do light landscaping tasks. Kubota sells bazillions of BX tractors yearly and many owners are completely happy with them on one or two acres.

Minimal 9" ground clearance can make working in woodland difficult. If one wheel drops into a 4-1/2" burrow or rut and a second wheel goes up on a 4-1/2" mound or tree limb you may be stranded. Because of low ground clearance, HST cooling fan under the tractor is vulnerable to ground damage. Those who take BX tractors into woodlands often armor underneath. Several venders sell BX undercarriage armor kits.

Subcompacts have two-range (2) HST transmissions. In HIGH range your max ground speed over uneven ground will be around six mph. You may find traversing eight acres with 400 pound to 500 pound bucket loads tedious at six mph.

Slightly larger 'Compact tractors' of 1,600 - 1,800 pounds bare tractor weight have larger wheels and tires. Larger wheels yield greater ground clearance, usually at least 12", and a much smoother ride over rough ground. With 12" ground clearance you can tractor cultivate a garden until crop reaches 12" to 14" height. Compact tractors have greater FEL lift capacity than Subcompacts. Subcompacts generally draw 48" wide implements. Compact tractors generally draw 54" or 60" implements. Allowing for a 5" overlap in use, a considerable improvement over 48" implements.

Five reasons owner/operators trade up from a BX:
More tractor weight.
More FEL lift capacity.
Greater ground clearance
Three-range (3) HST rather than two-range (2) HST on BX. (Lower LOW, Higher, HIGH)
More tractor engine horsepower to operate PTO powered implements.

For eight bumpy acres consider a Kubota LX2610.

VIDEOS: Kubota BX Series VS. B Series - YouTube

Kubota B265 VS Kubota LX261 - Are they the same? - YouTube


Thanks everyone. Looks like the b wins out. Now to decide between the 23 and 26. Thinking ill start with the fel and mmm. Trying to decide between a ballast or just going with a box blade.
 
   / Almost Daily Thread: SUBCOMPACT or COMPACT TRACTOR?
  • Thread Starter
#54  
Small tractor wheels drop into holes and ruts, disrupting tractor traction. Larger wheels and tires supplied on heavier tractors bridge many holes and ruts, increasing traction. Larger wheels and tires permit higher operating speed over uneven ground by reducing implement bounce and operator perturbation.
 
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   / Almost Daily Thread: SUBCOMPACT or COMPACT TRACTOR? #55  
Repetitively typing almost the same advice on the Topic: SUBCOMPACT or COMPACT TRACTOR? is not that interesting.

I am going to accumulate some well considered, well punctuated standard replies, then refine the advice.

Everyone is welcome to contribute.
Have you looked at the Yanmar tractors?? 4x4 10 year warranty very dependable made tractors for John Deere for over 20 years? JD still
uses Yanmar diesel engines read some place that over 75% of tractors have Yanmar diesel engines

willy
 
   / Almost Daily Thread: SUBCOMPACT or COMPACT TRACTOR?
  • Thread Starter
#56  
Primarily I need a tractor for mowing, garden work and then snow removal on the gravel portion of our (long) driveway in the winter. A much smaller percentage of the time I would use a tractor for tree work and moving/pulling collection tanks of sap.

All of the tractor applications you have specified call for Three Point Hitch mounted implements or Front End Loader (FEL) work. None of the tractor applications you have listed call for a Backhoe. Forget the Backhoe, instead budget for a heavier, more stable tractor.


We have a 30 acre property with about 8 acres of lawn and former horse pasture (recently brush hogged). The remainder is hilly forest that I am starting to manage for timber and maple syrup production.

Subcompact tractors are best regarded as wonderful lawn mowers with the ability to do light landscaping tasks. The practical top speed of a subcompact tractor over uneven ground is 5 - mph. You will find low mowing speed of perhaps 3-mph ( 1-1/2 acre per hour. ) tedious mowing eight acres regularly. Small tires on a subcompact tractor yield a very rough ride over uneven ground. Former horse pasture qualifies as uneven ground.

Subcompact tractors with a Mid Mount Mower have about 3" or ground clearance with mower attached, 9" ground clearance with mower removed. Removing/replacing a Mid Mount Mower, with its front PTO shaft, is a tedious, sweaty task. Subcompacts have two-range (2) HST transmissions. Subcompacts generally draw 48" wide implements.

Ground clearance due to larger wheels and tires is the single greatest difference in tractor specs between (all brands) of Subcompact tractors and the lightest Compact tractors. Larger wheels and tires permit compact tractors to bridge holes, ruts and tree debris with less operator and implement perturbation relative to subcompact tractors. One can mow a field faster with larger wheels and tires. One or two mph with larger wheels/tires will significantly reduce field mowing time.

Compact tractors of 1,600 - 1,800 pounds bare tractor weight have larger wheels and tires. Larger wheels yield greater ground clearance, usually at least 12", and a much smoother ride over rough ground. With 12" ground clearance you can tractor cultivate a garden until crop reaches 12" to 14" height.

Compact tractors have greater FEL lift capacity than Subcompacts and usually have three-range (3) HST transmissions. Compact tractors generally draw 54" or 60" implements. Allowing for a 6" overlap in use, a considerable improvement over 48" implements.

MOWING CALCULATOR: Mowing Calcuator | How many acres can I mow in an hour

Five reasons owner/operators trade up from a Subcompact Tractor:
More tractor weight.
More FEL lift capacity.
Greater ground clearance
Three-range (3) HST rather than two-range (2) HST.
(Lower LOW, Higher, HIGH) (Higher ground speed.)
More tractor engine horsepower to operate wider PTO powered implements.


VIDEO:




Like many new to tractors, you are thinking too small/light.

I recommend buying a 3,500 pound to 4,000 pound bare weight tractor, 66" wide, typified by Kubota's MX series. This is a high volume compact tractor category; every tractor manufacturer has 2-5 models in mid-weight tractors.

A Kubota L3560, with standard adjustable rear wheel stance, would also be safe.

You will be much safer working thirty acres of hilly forest.

When considering a tractor purchase bare tractor weight first, tractor horsepower second, rear axle width third (stability), rear wheel/tire ballast fourth (stability and traction).

BUY ENOUGH TRACTOR.​
 
   / Almost Daily Thread: SUBCOMPACT or COMPACT TRACTOR? #57  
I started shopping subcompacts. I was primarily attracted to the price, and being able to get a TLB package for around $20k. The more I thought about it, the more concerned I became about the subcompact being able to do the jobs I needed.

Our box blade is a 5' model. Our old New Holland TC29 pulled it but when the box got full of material, especially on a hill, the tires would begin to slip a little. There is NO WAY a subcompact with half the machine weight would have pulled that box blade through a load of gravel. I also became worried about the tip over hazard, as subcompacts are very narrow and have tiny wheels and tires. The lift capacity is also a worry...typically you're looking at much less real ability to carry weight in the bucket. Bottom line is, the small size has advantages for homeowners with an acre or less, but if you want to do any real work or homesteading it's just not ideal.

I ended up moving up to a 40 HP compact and it is working out well. It's certainly NOT overkill for our 3 acres...it's often on the ragged edge of being adequate. But it works well and I'm so glad that I decided to forego the backhoe in order to get a bigger and more useable tractor. Our property is only a few acres adjacent to a couple more acres that my parents own, but I can't imagine trying to do the jobs that constantly come up around here with a subcompact.
 
   / Almost Daily Thread: SUBCOMPACT or COMPACT TRACTOR?
  • Thread Starter
#58  
I have a newish (200 hours) Yanmar SA434 that I frequently dig with.
Problem is with a full scoop of dirt I can't drive up a steep slope!


Are the Yanmar's rear tires turning without the tractor moving forward, creating rear tire ruts?
The burdened bucket unloads weight from your rear wheels/tires. Do you have Three Point Hitch counterbalance mounted when attempting to drive up a steep slope with a bucket of material?

Or, the alternative, are your rear wheels/tires not turning?
Are your rear tires correctly inflated after 200 hours?
Are the rims turning within the tires due to low inflation?
Or your two range HST transmission is pooping out.


Your Yanmar 434 is an 1,800 pound bare weight, subcompact tractor. This is the lightest category of Three Point Hitch tractor. Tractor weight mostly defines tractor capability.

There is little you can do to upgrade any subcompact tractor's performance. More engine horsepower, small wheels/tires and a two-range HST transmission is a zero sum.

Research 3,600 to 4,000 pound bare weight compact Yanmar tractors. A 4-WD tractor with this weight is suitable for cropping five to fifteen acres. The Loader will lift at least one ton.

Five reasons owner/operators trade up from a Subcompact Tractor:
More tractor weight.
More FEL lift capacity.
More ground clearance
Three-range (3) HST (Lower LOW, Higher, HIGH) rather than two-range (2) HST.
Larger wheels and tires yield more tractive power pulling ground contact implements and logs, pushing a loader bucket into dirt and pushing snow. Larger wheels and tires permit heavier tractors to bridge holes, ruts and tree debris with less implement and operator perturbation.

The fundamental importance of TRACTOR WEIGHT eludes many tractor shoppers. Heavier tractor weight is more important for most tractor applications than increased tractor horsepower. Bare tractor weight is a tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites, readily comparable across tractor brands and tractor models, new and used.







I have owned three tractors. The first was a 1,900 pound subcompact "learner" without a Loader. The second a 2,200 pound tractor-loader package with 33-horsepower and three-range HST transmission. The third, my 3,700 pound Kubota L3560, is tractor nirvana in my north Florida conditions. Had I early read a thread philosophizing on tractor weight it would have stimulated tractor weight research and I would have omitted purchase of tractor #2, which proved too light for my applications. I purchased tractor #2 seduced by the allure of increased horsepower.
 
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   / Almost Daily Thread: SUBCOMPACT or COMPACT TRACTOR? #59  
If the rear tires are shorter than I am tall and I can see easily over the hood, it's not for me :D
 
   / Almost Daily Thread: SUBCOMPACT or COMPACT TRACTOR? #60  
Then comes Box Blade or Regular Grader Blade.

I would vote for "both" as I use them for different uses. A box blade is for leveling material, a rear blade is for scraping material.

If you wanted a debate, other than "what brand of tractor do I get?," the most common topics of debate generally involve what tires to get, whether or not to fill them, and if so, what to fill them with. Cab vs. open station is probably next, followed by purchasing a large compact like a Kubota MX with hydrostiatic transmission vs. one of the smaller full-sized utility tractor with a gear transmission.

IMO the term "subcompact" is a misnomer and just a marketing term...I've never seen any industry standards that discern the terms...
Any tractor smaller than what is typically considered a full size machine (think 9n etc...) is a "compact" tractor...some are more compact that others...

Methinks the term subcompact was coined to prevent them from being called "mini-tractors"

There are no hard and fast definitions, and I would agree the terms come from what group of buyers the tractor is marketed toward, but here are the general features today:

A subcompact tractor generally has:
- Category 0 or limited category 1 3-point hitch
- A hydrostatic transmission only
- Less than 1000 pounds of loader lift capacity
- No more than 26 engine HP
- Rear tires of 27" diameter or less
- Dry weight of 1750 lb or less
- Belly mower and front/mid PTO option
- Marketed toward residential buyers

A compact tractor generally has:
- Category 1 3-point hitch
- A hydrostatic transmission with sometimes the option of a gear transmission
- About 900 to 2000 pounds of loader lift capacity
- Bevel gear MFWD front axle
- Between 25 and about 60 engine HP and an engine displacement of 150 CID (2.5 liters) or less
- A dry weight of roughly 1750 to 4000 pounds for an open station unit
- Rear tires larger than 27" in diameter
- For US market models, rear PTO is 540 RPM only

A utility tractor generally has:
- Category 2 or 3 3-point hitch
- No hydrostatic transmission
- 50 to less than 200 engine HP and a displacement of between 150 and less than 450 CID
- Planetary gear MFWD or 2WD front axle
- Over a ton of loader lift capacity
- A dry weight of over 4000 lbs for an open station unit
- No belly mower
- Rear PTO only (1 3/8" diameter only)
- No duals
- Able to be fitted with a loader
- Marketed toward agricultural buyers

An 8N Ford would probably be considered a compact today. It is about the same physical size as a Kubota L or Deere 4 series, weighs roughly 2500 pounds, has a category 1 3-point hitch, and has a 120 CID 30 HP engine.
 
 
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