Grid-tied solar

[KiwiBro]

I'd imagine there is a valid argument for existing grid connections to remain connected, if they have controllable storage ability that can be used to dampen the grid peaks, improving resiliency, delaying network upgrades, etc. At least in the interim transitional period. The savings made by the state delaying the network investments or maintenance costs could instead flow back to homeowners (or likely the battery providers) as subsidies to hasten the adoption of these grid-connected distributed storage options.

I guess the question is, how much could the state save in the long run with such an approach, compared to maintaining or increasing investments in the old, centralised storage/generation + network distribution model?

 

[houstonscott]

Tesla I wonder how many I would need to get through the night with AC. Inside piece of information, Tesla is recruiting US military officers to supervise factory in Fremont and New coming facility in Nevada. Much like SW Airlines did when they started. HS

 

[houstonscott]

Why Tesla's Powerwall Is Just Another Toy For Rich Green People - Forbes

HS

 

[tjcarguy]

So MMB ( Musks Magic Battery ) will have similar storage for 3,000 $ as 6 marine batteries for 400 $ ---Trevor

 

[houstonscott]

So MMB ( Musks Magic Battery ) will have similar storage for 3,000 $ as 6 marine batteries for 400 $ ---Trevor

Not much more than hundreds of AA lithium ion batteries from Walmart in a pretty box. HS

 

[KiwiBro]

Why Tesla's Powerwall Is Just Another Toy For Rich Green People - Forbes

HS

So many parts of our lives are dependant on technology that simply wouldn't exist in the form it does, if it weren't for early adopters who are not motivated by a simple value proposition. Similarly, where would the arts be without benefactors? Our lives are enriched by both, and the very fact rich people make a deliberate and voluntary decision to spend at all on such things should be celebrated, not denounced.

We could argue all day every day about what they should spend their $ on, why they have so much $ to spend, etc, but at least they are spending/investing/supporting ideas and the people behind them.

That's what I think Tesla brings most to the party - the ability to reach people willing to pay to essentially drive this closer to mass-market than it otherwise would be. It certainly isn't the product itself because I don't think the Powerwall battery is quite hitting the sweet spot yet, but boy their marketing clout is impressive.

 

[Redneck in training]

First cars were also toys for rich people. The same were first flat TVs for 20000 USD. If the history repeats itself and the battery cost drops below 200 USD/kWh there will be many buyers. And if the cost drops to 100 USD/kWh they will have to build few more mega factories. If Tesla succeeds there will be other players coming to get a piece of the pie.

 

[TomSeller]

First cars were also toys for rich people. The same were first flat TVs for 20000 USD.

Right. And we see how those industries never "stagnated" because of the visionless naysayers. Today we have visionless members on TBN that would be in a horse and buggy with tube monitors in their house without the Internet if the enlightened did not drag them into the future.

 

[Egon]

Right. And we see how those industries never "stagnated" because of the visionless naysayers. Today we have visionless members on TBN that would be in a horse and buggy with tube monitors in their house without the Internet if the enlightened did not drag them into the future.

How about no buggy just walking? Buggies need wheels!

 

[3930dave]

I'd imagine there is a valid argument for existing grid connections to remain connected, if they have controllable storage ability that can be used to dampen the grid peaks, improving resiliency, delaying network upgrades, etc. At least in the interim transitional period. The savings made by the state delaying the network investments or maintenance costs could instead flow back to homeowners (or likely the battery providers) as subsidies to hasten the adoption of these grid-connected distributed storage options.

I guess the question is, how much could the state save in the long run with such an approach, compared to maintaining or increasing investments in the old, centralised storage/generation + network distribution model?

My impression of the govts down your way (Oz too) is they have a lot more common sense than what we deal with up here. Any "savings" that might accrue here, will never see the light of day.

You touched on some of the merits of widely distributed energy generation and storage. There are technical and logistical advantages there, at least until such time as high-temperature super conductors are in mass production.

So, the argument loops back to fiscal. Most of the "Thou Shalt Stay Connected to the Grid" edict is a Carrot and Stick deal. If you decide you want to exclusively grow your own carrots, or switch to eating broccoli, you will be beaten with the Stick until you resume buying your Carrots from the existing monopoly.

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

How about no buggy just walking?

Then you'd be declaring fealty to those evil purveyors of long-distance walking boots !

Rgds, D.

 

[houstonscott]

Right. And we see how those industries never "stagnated" because of the visionless naysayers. Today we have visionless members on TBN that would be in a horse and buggy with tube monitors in their house without the Internet if the enlightened did not drag them into the future.

Sure you are not being dragged into to past? HS

 

[TomSeller]

Sure you are not being dragged into to past? HS

Oh no, I am looking forward. Maybe you can give it a try someday?

Just tell yourself there can be life with multiple energy sources and not all power has to come from petroleum.

 

[ultrarunner]

Very interesting story on energy last night on TV...

It covered a lot and basically said top down market manipulation doesn't work.

For the US it was the ethanol being a net energy loss all things considered and driving up food cost.

For Germany it is much worse... coal is their dirty power also because the type of coal. The energy mandate to go Green has ramped up coal use... solar and wind need back up and the back up now that Nuclear is out.

Sad story about historic towns and villages being erased from existence to get at the coal.

Germany Plans to Raze Towns for Brown Coal and Cheap Energy

Also the citizens of Germany had 80% price per kW to cover "Transition"

The premise is there is no one world solution and the best approaches tend to be region specific...

 

[Egon]

Is that like levelling mountains in Virginia?

 

[houstonscott]

Anyone familiar with solaredge technology. HS

 

[Redneck in training]

Anyone familiar with solaredge technology. HS

Yes. They make PV inverters, optimizers and associated monitoring software. Have not heard too many complains. I think that is one of the better suppliers of inverters.
You might look at "island capable inverters" that provide emergency power when grid goes down as long as sun is shining.

 

[houstonscott]

Anyone have a opinion on a fair price per kW installed. HS

 

[Redneck in training]

Anyone have a opinion on a fair price per kW installed. HS

I got a quote in 2012 3.50/W.

 

[houstonscott]

Seems to me the installers take your tax credit by overcharging. $3.50-$4.00 per kW installed in a flat roof install is normal, but is an overcharge of equipment by 30% or more than what I can buy the identical equipment myself over the net. I can buy any system for $1.70 a kW. That's a tidy profit for the installer. This is a major problem with solar becoming a main stream solution to reducing electric use, the installer industry is flaky and predatory. HS