Massey Ferguson 1533 built 2005 - Loader hydraulic coupler troubles

[bearthebruce]

I don't like double posting but no one is responding in the repair thread sub-forum so....

One of the hydraulic lift lines to the loader caught a branch and ripped the hose out of the mating coupler. No damage was done to the hose.

We are unable to get the coupler to lock in and mate despite breaking and bleeding all pressure in the lift loop. I suspect something in the coupler is damaged but cannot see anything wrong with it.

Seems these couplers are near custom for Massey. Great... I did get one at the dealer and am planning to try a new one as a solution. Just curious if any here have experienced a failure of this type and if there is something else I should be trying. I won't be on the property for 5 weeks from now so I have time to collect other ideas.

This tractor has the push in to release style female coupler. You push the hose in hard and then yank to pull it out. The release ring is built into the coupler and can not be "activated" except by pushing in the male connector. Oh how I wish it has the more common release ring!

 

[can do]

I don't like double posting but no one is responding in the repair thread sub-forum so....

One of the hydraulic lift lines to the loader caught a branch and ripped the hose out of the mating coupler. No damage was done to the hose.

We are unable to get the coupler to lock in and mate despite breaking and bleeding all pressure in the lift loop. I suspect something in the coupler is damaged but cannot see anything wrong with it.

Seems these couplers are near custom for Massey. Great... I did get one at the dealer and am planning to try a new one as a solution. Just curious if any here have experienced a failure of this type and if there is something else I should be trying. I won't be on the property for 5 weeks from now so I have time to collect other ideas.

This tractor has the push in to release style female coupler. You push the hose in hard and then yank to pull it out. The release ring is built into the coupler and can not be "activated" except by pushing in the male connector. Oh how I wish it has the more common release ring!

I can say I've never had that problem with my M-F 1526 ! & I'm sorry this no help , But I use my older M-F 50 to go into areas were I don't have to worry about such things , Again no help & I'm just replying so your question is getting out there . Do You have any pictures You can post?

 

[bearthebruce]

Plug connected

Plug disconnected

Female connector detail - Safeway can't read the model #

I went to our nearest Massey dealer and picked up a new female connector but I do not have confidence that the connector is the issue. I cannot see a problem in the connector. I cannot feel any burrs. The male inserts fully, but does not lock and does not open the internal ball to let fluid flow. Frustrating and weird.

Dealer said, "Ain't never heard of such a thing!" Just the words I wanted to hear! Dealer installed this loader and made all the connections. That was 2 years ago.

 

[JWR]

"I ain't never neither..." Since you have the new female coupling, insert the male into it and see if it mates OK and locks in. I bet it does. You may have to put the female in a vice (or big vicegrips) or something to hold it strongly enough to pull the male back out ! Careful not to damage the new female. If that works then you know some kind of damage was done to the original female connector. My guess is that the "rip-loose incident" somehow damaged the internal spring-loaded return to locked position. You would not be able to see that. That damage seems pretty hard to imagine but apparently has to be.

You probably already have, but I would look for burrs or nicks in EITHER side of the connector pair and maybe do a little fine sanding if you find any. I'd fiddle with it some more and see if, when you insert the male, you can rotate it, wiggle it, tap the female lightly with a small hammer, etc. All that said, even if you get them to latch, since you have the new connector it probably makes sense to go ahead and install it permanently. I would.

OBTW, I think those connectors are often called Pioneer and/or AG connectors which are the least expensive and usually quite reliable. Been around for "100 years."

 

[bearthebruce]

Thank you @JWR. We have done the twist and wiggle, taps and bumps. It will feel like it is latched and then a wiggle and it pops out. The telltale sign is no fluid flowing. Frustrating to say the least!

We had trouble getting this connector to let go. We wanted to re-route the hose so that it was less susceptible to rubbing on the front tire. We could not free it. Now, we cannot get it locked in. I wonder if this was a bad connector from the get go and should have been replaced when the loader was installed.

I won't be back on the property until mid-May. I will post what we find. Might be good for someone else someday!

 

[JWR]

Thank you @JWR. We have done the twist and wiggle, taps and bumps. It will feel like it is latched and then a wiggle and it pops out. The telltale sign is no fluid flowing. Frustrating to say the least!

We had trouble getting this connector to let go. We wanted to re-route the hose so that it was less susceptible to rubbing on the front tire. We could not free it. Now, we cannot get it locked in. I wonder if this was a bad connector from the get go and should have been replaced when the loader was installed.

I won't be back on the property until mid-May. I will post what we find. Might be good for someone else someday!

I certainly feel for ya ! My farming location (once a month) is 330 miles away and many problems take eons to solve because of that difficulty. Good luck and we look forward to "the rest of the story."

 

[bearthebruce]

Live in the Philly area - farm is in SW Virginny along the Blue Ridge Parkway, near Floyd, VA. My commute to the farm is 450 miles.. Always go for at least a week. June is mowing month.. I want to have the front loader functional by then. Need it to be down near the ground - not at hood height. I know I can drain fluid to get there... but...

As said, will post the fix in May. Thanks to all for your support.

 

[lpakiz]

Make sure you can depress the little ball or tip back into EACH half of the coupler. If you are successful, you should get a few drops of oil to leak out.
You should be able to press those tips in with hand pressure, plus maybe a pad or leather glove to allow you to push a little harder. The male tip can be pressed into a tire, the floor, metal side of the tractor, some firm surface.
Use a dowel or a punch or some round device to reach into the female part. Again, firm hand pressure should suffice.
If you can't depress BOTH sides, it won't stay latched.
And if one side or the other won't depress, you need to relieve the hydraulic pressure by loosening a fitting somewhere behind the recalcitrant item, bleeding off a few drops of hydraulic oil onto your floor. Then try to depress the tip again.

BTW, if the loader is off the ground and being held there by a disconnected hose, you will not get it reattached until you relieve the pressure.
If the loader is part way up, jam a 2X4 under it, to lift the loader a little bit. Or jam the 2X4 under the tip of the (leveled) bucket, then roll the bucket to lift the main frame of the loader. Ya gotta relieve the hydraulic pressure.
Then try to depress the ball/tip again. BOTH halves MUST be able to be depressed by hand--after all, you are only using hand pressure to force the coupler together......so any resistance beyond that force will result in a "no-go"

 

[bearthebruce]

Make sure you can depress the little ball or tip back into EACH half of the coupler. If you are successful, you should get a few drops of oil to leak out.

Yes, fully aware and have done that. Before I install the new one, I will repeat that to be absolutely certain I did as I believe I did.

And if one side or the other won't depress, you need to relieve the hydraulic pressure by loosening a fitting somewhere behind the recalcitrant item, bleeding off a few drops of hydraulic oil onto your floor. Then try to depress the tip again.

I did do this on the male side. The female side is connected to the hard pipe. Only way to release is to loosen the connector. As my first time trying to effect such a repair, I was un-certain as the best method to loosen. Talked to a tech at the dealer and he gave me the pointers.

If the loader is part way up, jam a 2X4 under it, to lift the loader a little bit. Or jam the 2X4 under the tip of the (leveled) bucket, then roll the bucket to lift the main frame of the loader. Ya gotta relieve the hydraulic pressure.

Yep, did that. Once we cracked the loader cylinder lines, the bucket dropped slightly onto the 2x4 holding the bucket up. I didn't want the bucket crashing to the ground - crashing onto the concrete floor. I knew relieving pressure would cause it to want to move. It is now fully resting on the 2x4.

@Ipakiz, thank you for your post and suggestions. I will re-visit them all to make sure I have free ball movement in the connectors.

 

[Xfaxman]

Try swapping the hoses at A and B.

In your picture the male connector is not in far enough to be seated:

 

[bearthebruce]

@Xfaxman, we agree. I did not try swapping A & B to see if A would seat in the B socket - good idea.

The issue with the A socket is that the plug will not stay in and latch. you can get it in, but then if you wiggle it, it will pull out. The fluid valves are not open.

We think when the plug was yanked out, something was damaged and the balls will not retain the plug.

I'll be back at the tractor on May 9. I'll try your suggestion then.

Thank you for your suggestion and time.

 

[lpakiz]

I suspect you had or now have a pretty good understanding of how BOTH of the poppet balls will factor into the successful completion of your coupling. Both sides must be relaxed.
In the pic above, yes, the collar is not in the proper position to retain the male tip. And there's a very good chance that is because one or the other poppet balls refuses to recede into the void, which allows fluid to flow. I pretty much guarantee that if you can't push both of those poppet balls off their seat, by hand pressure, you will not get the connection to hold.
There is a small chance that there is some debris, a small grain of sand, mud, grunge, that won't allow the collar to assume its correct position. If you can, take some spray carb cleaner and a blow gun to those moving parts to make sure it's clean in there.
And as was suggested above, (Xfaxman) interchange a couple of those tips and couplers, to see if there could be some physical damage to one of those components.
I doubt you'll find damage, as that system was used on my 1955 Case 400 to prevent stretched or torn hydraulic hoses when the trip hitch on the trailer plow snagged a rock or root and unhooked the plow. The male tips and hoses simply got yanked out of the captured sleeve and fell to the ground, undamaged.

 

[can do]

I don't like double posting but no one is responding in the repair thread sub-forum so....

One of the hydraulic lift lines to the loader caught a branch and ripped the hose out of the mating coupler. No damage was done to the hose.

We are unable to get the coupler to lock in and mate despite breaking and bleeding all pressure in the lift loop. I suspect something in the coupler is damaged but cannot see anything wrong with it.

Seems these couplers are near custom for Massey. Great... I did get one at the dealer and am planning to try a new one as a solution. Just curious if any here have experienced a failure of this type and if there is something else I should be trying. I won't be on the property for 5 weeks from now so I have time to collect other ideas.

This tractor has the push in to release style female coupler. You push the hose in hard and then yank to pull it out. The release ring is built into the coupler and can not be "activated" except by pushing in the male connector. Oh how I wish it has the more common release ring!

There is a possibility on both male & female connectors the internal springs are broken on one of the connectors internally & that would prevent it from locking in place ! There are a couple of videos on YouTube showing cutaways of both male & female connectors that show the internals ! I think this will solve the problem because it will allow you see what you can't see ! I hope that this will help solve the problem .

 

[Dmacleo]

you can relieve pressure off tractor side with engine off and cycling control lever through all positions.
I've had one act like this on a 1532 and cycling relieved pressure enough to connect

 

[bearthebruce]

I appreciate all the feedback and help. @can do, been looking for a cutaway. As an engineer, I want to understand what is working there and am still a bit in the dark. I'm a sparky but have pretty solid mechanical aptitude owing to my days of designings machines/machine controls. Still, I like to learn and will see what I can find on uTube.

@Ipakiz, thanks for your suggestions that you do not suspect it is damaged. I'd rather not replace but I have purchased replacements in case one is needed.

We'll keep working the problem and as I have written, I will post the result here.

 

[lpakiz]

Dave is absolutely correct that the pressure on the pump side of the circuit can be relieved by cycling the joystick with the engine off.
Then you can EASILY prove that the pressure is relaxed, by depressing the poppet with a rod, punch, dowel, whatever. If it's relaxed, hand pressure will depress the spring-loaded poppet ball.
BTW, there is a chance of getting a squirt of oil in your face while doing this. I usually work thru a clean towel or grease rag.

 

[bearthebruce]

As previously said, we did move the joy stick. We did press the ball and we did see hydraulic fluid come out. That said, perhaps we did not hold it open long enough.

On the plug side, we opened both sides of the circuit and with those open, we pressed the ball in by hand. We then tried to insert the plug into the socket and still could not get it to seat.

If there is an issue of pressure, it has to be on the socket side. We'll look at that more closely. The only way to "open" that side is to rotate the socket on the threaded piping. We'll play with all of that before replacing the socket.

Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Dmacleo]

yeah I bet ball seat area is damaged and misshapen ball(s) causing non-lock.
I had missed where you said you cycled control lever.
if line on loader side for that fits another socket fine then I'd not mess around and would just replace.

per agco parts should be a SL103298 female connector. can't remember where I bought my fittings from when building hydro relief valve test hose but they sold sl style and were good prices.



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[bearthebruce]

Thank you Dave (@Dmacieo). My dealer only had one in stock and the other is being shipped to my home - its a spare. We'll see what we find.

If the connector has failed, it'll be replaced and hopefully all will be fixed. I just wish I were onsite to get this done this week!

I just might get a couple more and replace them all at $15 each.. Thanks for the ebay link.

 

[bearthebruce]

I wanted to close this out. Turns out there was nothing wrong with the female socket. The issue was that when the hose was yanked from the female, the nipple/male side of the hose was distorted, out of round and a guy with eyes that knew what to look at spotted it immediately.

I ended up at Hose House in Christiansburg, VA for help. No one else had stock of the 1/2" hose fittings used on this loader. The kind gentlemen at Hose House said, "You can't get this to seat right? Look right here. See these fine cracks? This thing distorted when it got ripped out of the socket."

New nipple, new socket, the hose connects and disconnects like it should. We are fully back in operation.

I really appreciate all the help. I hope all of us have learned something with this final post.

Happy is the big ol bear moving stuff (we just got the stump bucket and will be working stumps): New video by Bruce Ruhf