New tractor equipment and plan

[lpigott]

Thought I would share my plan behind purchasing my new tractor and related equipment. I have 50 acres, 15 of which are in planted pine tress that are 17 years old which I plan to remove and sell the wood from and reclaim the land. I mow about 4 acres of yard with my BX 2200 which has been awesome in this task for the last 17 years and will continue in that duty. The rest of the land is either woods or field with 100' square spaced mature pecan trees that I plan to remove also. I will be building a large shop in the future but since it will be located on land where planned pines trees presently reside, they have to go first. I also have a 90s model NH 3930 and a HD 6' rotary cutter that I use for the field maintenance plots etc. On first thought one would say to just have a logger come cut the pines. The problem with that is timber prices are too low to get anyone to do so unless you have really large tracts of land or significant amount of large, high quality trees, which I don't. Loggers leave stumps also. I have lots of trees but they are not large enough to grade above chip and saw wood which is going for $15 a ton and the rest will be pulp for $7 a ton. About the only way one can get anything from trees like that is to cut and haul them yourself. While I am still in good shape and health, I am 55 and where I live in the deep southeast, it is extremely hot and humid for most of the year so there is no way I am going to kill myself working in heat and manual labor to clear my land. I work overseas on a 28 day on and 28 day off rotation so I have half of my time off that will allow me the time to get what I want done. I also need some legitimate tax write offs and that brings me to where I am now. I will be purchasing a Kubota M7060 with a cab so I can do most of my work out of the heat which allows me to work through the sweltering summer months. I feel the M7060 will be a big overkill but yet not too big for what I plan but I would rather have more than needed than less. I will be getting a HD grapple to use to load the logs on a trailer, pile brush for burning and to clear other areas of thick woods and make trails throughout what is not cleared. I hope to push most of the trees over so I can remove the stumps as I go. For trees that can't be pushed or pulled I will be getting a FEL mounted tree shear. I will use the tree shear to also chip the pines off the stumps and then grab them and pull them to the processing and loading area it will be awesome to make trails with too. I will be getting a heavy 7' box blade, mainly for a counter weight but will work great for skidding trees with chain when needed. I also plan on getting a Lane Shark FEL mounted trail trimmer to keep up trails and mow around pond edges. Trails, roads, food plots and shooting lanes in my region grow over fast and the Lane Shark looks to be the perfect tool for easily maintaining this problem. My current rotary cutter will be used as needed and in the future I plan to add a 8' flail mower as my maintained yard area will grow significantly as the land gets reclaimed. I am also considering one of those dandy 3 pt hydraulic grapples for skidding but I will wait and see how what I have now works me too hard or not! So there you have it, I can afford this business venture without risk since I still work and I will also be able to show income form selling the trees and have the equipment to do is jobs of the same type for others as needed also. My hope is to get what I want done and not kill myself doing while getting a tax break also. Thoughts?

 

[mcfarmall]

In my understanding, purchasing equipment can only be a write-off if it's for a business. I didn't see anywhere in your post where you are planning on starting a "business" and using it to write off your equipment purchases. Around here, you can't write off machinery and equipment that is used to maintain or improve your place of residence or recreational property.

 

[lpigott]

Yes I will be in the business of selling pine trees. You have to pay tax on timber you sell and the means you use to get is to sell is a write off. No different than if I had cows and raised and sold them, everything used in accomplishing that is a business expense. I will also be doing the same services for other for hire, just on a more limited basis until I get my trees clears and sold.

 

[rustyshakelford]

Have you harvested much pine before? I have cleared quite a bit of land and see a bunch of issues you might have. First, your tractor wasn't designed to shove over trees. You will break things frequently.

I get wanting to do it yourself. How far away is the mill? You'll wear out a truck and trailer hauling wood and it sounds like your going to have quite a bit. I hired a truck driver with a prentice loader on his truck. I think he wanted $4 a ton to load and haul. Was a good deal to me. I would used the dozer to shove the trees over and get the root ball out of the ground. Then buck your stump. At this point I'd skid the trees to a landing where I would cut them into logs and slick them up and pile them. I just wanted one area that was wrecker with limbs. On bigger trees I had to dig with the track hoe but with 17 year old ones you should be in pretty good shape.

I like most of your plan except for using your tractor for anything besides picking up, dragging and smoothing. Rent a dozer and hire a saw hand. You will increase productivity a bunch. Don't forget your loggers tape

Brett

 

[lpigott]

Have you harvested much pine before? I have cleared quite a bit of land and see a bunch of issues you might have. First, your tractor wasn't designed to shove over trees. You will break things frequently.

I get wanting to do it yourself. How far away is the mill? You'll wear out a truck and trailer hauling wood and it sounds like your going to have quite a bit. I hired a truck driver with a prentice loader on his truck. I think he wanted $4 a ton to load and haul. Was a good deal to me. I would used the dozer to shove the trees over and get the root ball out of the ground. Then buck your stump. At this point I'd skid the trees to a landing where I would cut them into logs and slick them up and pile them. I just wanted one area that was wrecker with limbs. On bigger trees I had to dig with the track hoe but with 17 year old ones you should be in pretty good shape.

I like most of your plan except for using your tractor for anything besides picking up, dragging and smoothing. Rent a dozer and hire a saw hand. You will increase productivity a bunch. Don't forget your loggers tape

Brett

No I haven't logged before but I have been around it my whole life so I know what is involved. I won't break anything, I have been running tractors my whole life, living on a farm and driving them since I was 6 years old, I know the limits. Yard to drop off the logs is only about 5 miles away. I already have a 2500HD diesel truck and a heavy equipment trailer so hauling a couple loads of logs a day or week sure won't wear them out, truck and trailer have done far worse duty. My trees are not huge and where planted in what once was a nice field with good topsoil. I originally was just going to use the tree shear to cut them off and then get a tractor mounted stump grinder to deal with the stumps. If I can push them over standing them the stumps will be easier to remove, just use the grapple to grab them and pile for burning. If the pushing over proves too difficult I will revert to plan A. I am not under the gun by having to make a living doing this and under no time constrains. I will employ my Husky saws as needed but plan to keep that as limited as possible as the goal here is to press forward with the plan and not kill myself and take all the fun out of it I had a dozer years back and built my long driveway and dug a pond and considered getting one for this but getting a machine large enough with a cab is expensive and then you are limited to doing just dozer stuff.

 

[finn1]

That's dozer work, not tractor work you're planning.

I think your "business" needs to turn a profit in three of any five consecutive years to write off your new equipment on your income taxes.

Consult a CPA before you commit to any large purchases with the intent of having the government pay for them.

 

[lpigott]

That's dozer work, not tractor work you're planning.

I think your "business" needs to turn a profit in three of any five consecutive years to write off your new equipment on your income taxes.

Consult a CPA before you commit to any large purchases with the intent of having the government pay for them.

I guess you don't understand. While I want to clear the land, harvesting the pines instead of wasting them is the goal here. You can't do that with a dozer. As mentioned above, I have owned my own dozer before. I have cleared a ton of land with various tractors also. Yes I plan on turning a profit in time too and should be able to do so easily between just the trees I have and joining neighbors in the same boat want theirs gone too. My daughter and SIL are both CPAs. I am not having the government pay for crap. I pay and enormous amount of taxes each year and have no intention of doing anything that isn't 100% legit. Starting a business and building it into something I can continue once I retire from working for the man and getting a tax break all while not risking anything is the smart way to do things IMO.

 

[bspeedy]

No I haven't logged before but I have been around it my whole life so I know what is involved. I won't break anything, I have been running tractors my whole life, living on a farm and driving them since I was 6 years old, I know the limits. Yard to drop off the logs is only about 5 miles away. I already have a 2500HD diesel truck and a heavy equipment trailer so hauling a couple loads of logs a day or week sure won't wear them out, truck and trailer have done far worse duty. My trees are not huge and where planted in what once was a nice field with good topsoil. I originally was just going to use the tree shear to cut them off and then get a tractor mounted stump grinder to deal with the stumps. If I can push them over standing them the stumps will be easier to remove, just use the grapple to grab them and pile for burning. If the pushing over proves too difficult I will revert to plan A. I am not under the gun by having to make a living doing this and under no time constrains. I will employ my Husky saws as needed but plan to keep that as limited as possible as the goal here is to press forward with the plan and not kill myself and take all the fun out of it I had a dozer years back and built my long driveway and dug a pond and considered getting one for this but getting a machine large enough with a cab is expensive and then you are limited to doing just dozer stuff.

I think you're going to trash your nice new tractor. My dad is doing work similar to what you describe on his land with a similar cabbed tractor. Total carnage so far is into the 4-digit range - something like 3 or 4 grand. This includes damage to his loader mounts and damage to his air conditioning system. Also, his tractor looks like it has been through a hard life. Dad is 79 years old and has been operating tractors and equipment for basically his entire life, so he's no rookie. Tractors are not made to work in brush with broken limbs, fallen trees, etc.

If I were determined to undertake this project, I would buy or rent a cabbed excavator of 12-14k lbs with a thumb. I'd dig up the bases, push the trees over and stack the stems after cutting the root ball and limbing. Then, I'd use a tractor or even the excavator to load the trailer. In my experience with land clearing and such, an excavator is a great tool to remove trees and move them around. Greater dexterity and the ability to pick and place material.

When you do make a final decision, please post pics and progress information so we all can learn along with you.

 

[Redlands Okie]

Sounds like if your careful operating your machinery your good to go. Per your information hiring it done will gain you little if anything. By doing it yourself if you break even or even loose a tiny bit of money your still way ahead due to tax write offs.

No mention of plans for the pecan trees removed and sale of the wood ? BBQ and wood workers bound to provide a bit of market.

 

[lpigott]

I think you're going to trash your nice new tractor. My dad is doing work similar to what you describe on his land with a similar cabbed tractor. Total carnage so far is into the 4-digit range - something like 3 or 4 grand. This includes damage to his loader mounts and damage to his air conditioning system. Also, his tractor looks like it has been through a hard life. Dad is 79 years old and has been operating tractors and equipment for basically his entire life, so he's no rookie. Tractors are not made to work in brush with broken limbs, fallen trees, etc.

If I were determined to undertake this project, I would buy or rent a cabbed excavator of 12-14k lbs with a thumb. I'd dig up the bases, push the trees over and stack the stems after cutting the root ball and limbing. Then, I'd use a tractor or even the excavator to load the trailer. In my experience with land clearing and such, an excavator is a great tool to remove trees and move them around. Greater dexterity and the ability to pick and place material.

When you do make a final decision, please post pics and progress information so we all can learn along with you.

I have very seen so much negativity and doubting Thomas's in my life, lol! Trust me I WILL NOT trash my nice new tractor! The pines are planted in straight rows starting from an open field. I will take my time and always have the tractor working on the clear and open side. This is not going to be a typical logging operation where you are driving in the woods and around hanging limbs and brush. When I do make trails in the woods the same will apply, I won't go charging in but rather switch between the Lane Shark and tree shear as needed and use the bush hog and grapple too. I understand that many may think I am going to wreck my tractor as you do not know me and my level skill at operating machinery. I have many 1000s of hours experience on tractors, dozers BH and other stuff doing just about anything you could imagine and have never broken one. The reason for the cab is to let me work whenever I want and also to force me to go slow and not jepordize myself or the tractor. I plan on the tractor being nice just as nice and shiny once I am done as when I start. I will have insurance also, in the unlikely chance I break a glass of something, and also liability insurance for coverage when I am working for hire on someone else property. Yes I could hire all this done but what fun is that and then I would have no good reason to buy a nice new trator and toys to go with it and be out money to boot. I also have the old trusty 3930 in case I have need of getting in the jungle. I will keep this thread updated as things progress for sure and probably do a Youtube channel with video coverage to boot.

 

[rustyshakelford]

No I haven't logged before but I have been around it my whole life so I know what is involved. I won't break anything, I have been running tractors my whole life, living on a farm and driving them since I was 6 years old, I know the limits. Yard to drop off the logs is only about 5 miles away. I already have a 2500HD diesel truck and a heavy equipment trailer so hauling a couple loads of logs a day or week sure won't wear them out, truck and trailer have done far worse duty. My trees are not huge and where planted in what once was a nice field with good topsoil. I originally was just going to use the tree shear to cut them off and then get a tractor mounted stump grinder to deal with the stumps. If I can push them over standing them the stumps will be easier to remove, just use the grapple to grab them and pile for burning. If the pushing over proves too difficult I will revert to plan A. I am not under the gun by having to make a living doing this and under no time constrains. I will employ my Husky saws as needed but plan to keep that as limited as possible as the goal here is to press forward with the plan and not kill myself and take all the fun out of it I had a dozer years back and built my long driveway and dug a pond and considered getting one for this but getting a machine large enough with a cab is expensive and then you are limited to doing just dozer stuff.

Good luck. I use my tractor for its intended purpose and had a great idea once to use my tractor to push over one tree that was in the way of my shop I was fixing to build. I had the loader up, tractor in low range and 4wd and started pushing. Mind you I have cleared lots of land but with the right equipment. I ended up blowing out both curl cylinders on my nice new tractor. I knew better but thought hey it's only one tree.

I get what your saying about running equipment so long. I guess that's why I'm having a hard time why you won't spend 1k a week for the right machine and get a lot more done. You'll make it back on the wood. I cleared my home place by myself. Took me a while because I can't run both pieces of equipment at the same time but when I was done I completed 30k worth of clearing and a 15k house pad and walked away with some money in my pocket still.

Good luck with hauling wood and hope you don't get caught by weights and measures that like to hang out by the mills. You will be overloaded on the truck for sure and most likely the trailer if you load a worthwhile load. I grossed 43k with my old 3/4 ton Cummins in 2007 and was lucky I didn't get stopped. Main truck went down and needed to get the wood off the trailer. How I have a 450 and run legal on weights and even with a 30k trailer, I'm not putting wood on it

Brett

 

[lpigott]

Good luck. I use my tractor for its intended purpose and had a great idea once to use my tractor to push over one tree that was in the way of my shop I was fixing to build. I had the loader up, tractor in low range and 4wd and started pushing. Mind you I have cleared lots of land but with the right equipment. I ended up blowing out both curl cylinders on my nice new tractor. I knew better but thought hey it's only one tree.

I get what your saying about running equipment so long. I guess that's why I'm having a hard time why you won't spend 1k a week for the right machine and get a lot more done. You'll make it back on the wood. I cleared my home place by myself. Took me a while because I can't run both pieces of equipment at the same time but when I was done I completed 30k worth of clearing and a 15k house pad and walked away with some money in my pocket still.

Good luck with hauling wood and hope you don't get caught by weights and measures that like to hang out by the mills. You will be overloaded on the truck for sure and most likely the trailer if you load a worthwhile load. I grossed 43k with my old 3/4 ton Cummins in 2007 and was lucky I didn't get stopped. Main truck went down and needed to get the wood off the trailer. How I have a 450 and run legal on weights and even with a 30k trailer, I'm not putting wood on it

Brett

As stated in the post above I have no plans of damaging my Tractor and if I do I will have insurance. The yard and scales are close and I won't be seeing how much I can fit on each load but rather make more trips. When I had my dozer I did what would have cost me 50-60 grand with it and sold it one one day for the same price I bought it for. I am off work half the time for 28 days each stretch and under no time constraints, so no need to push limits or paying someone to do something I not only can do myself but will enjoy doing. Add to that the feeling of accomplishment once done and that is hard to beat. Stay tuned

 

[sd455dan]

I think you're going to trash your nice new tractor. My dad is doing work similar to what you describe on his land with a similar cabbed tractor. Total carnage so far is into the 4-digit range - something like 3 or 4 grand. This includes damage to his loader mounts and damage to his air conditioning system. Also, his tractor looks like it has been through a hard life. Dad is 79 years old and has been operating tractors and equipment for basically his entire life, so he's no rookie. Tractors are not made to work in brush with broken limbs, fallen trees, etc.

If I were determined to undertake this project, I would buy or rent a cabbed excavator of 12-14k lbs with a thumb. I'd dig up the bases, push the trees over and stack the stems after cutting the root ball and limbing. Then, I'd use a tractor or even the excavator to load the trailer. In my experience with land clearing and such, an excavator is a great tool to remove trees and move them around. Greater dexterity and the ability to pick and place material.

When you do make a final decision, please post pics and progress information so we all can learn along with you.

agree on the excavator but would rather have a 312-size (around 28k) to push over the trees then use the tractor grapple to carry them after cutting off the root ball which can also be dealt with the grapple. - depending on the # of trees Renting an Excavator for a week and just getting the trees out of the ground would make more sense imo -than using even a 15,000 lb. tractor to push them over,

pine trees over about 12" thick was sometimes work for our 18,000lb jd 550 dozer depending on the roots, but was a breeze with the rented 312 EX-
No disrespect to the OP intended.
but and jmo it comes down to how well these pine trees are rooted and their diameter.

 

[lpigott]

agree on the excavator but would rather have a 312-size or better yet a 320 to push over the trees then use the tractor grapple to carry them after cutting off the root ball which can also be dealt with the grapple. - depending on the # of trees Renting an Excavator for a week and just getting the trees out of the ground would make more sense imo -than using even a 10,000 lb. tractor to push them over,

pine trees over about 12" thick was sometimes work for our 18,000lb jd 550 dozer depending on the roots, but was a breeze with the rented 312 EX-
No disrespect to the OP intended.
but and jmo it comes down to how well these pine trees are rooted and their diameter.

Renting equipment is not going to happen. Doing so would require I work my *** off, spend a ton of money with nothing to show for it and then still have to do way more manual labor than I have planned. Pine trees and root systems vary greatly where I live. The natural stands and fully mature trees have DEEP tap roots and you basically have to dig a hole the size od a small pond to remove them. These trees however were planted and fast growing shallow roots. Where they are planted used to be a nice field with great topsoil. As I have already mentioned, if they don't push over early easy then I will just use the tree shear and snip them off and buy a stump grinder (another cool toy I want anyway) and grind them out. When I had my little D-21 Komatsu dozer it would much similar trees these size over with easy with way less leverage too. Again if pushing over doesn't work as planned I will just shear them off and deal with the stumps later.

 

[bspeedy]

I have very seen so much negativity and doubting Thomas's in my life, lol! Trust me I WILL NOT trash my nice new tractor! The pines are planted in straight rows starting from an open field. I will take my time and always have the tractor working on the clear and open side. This is not going to be a typical logging operation where you are driving in the woods and around hanging limbs and brush. When I do make trails in the woods the same will apply, I won't go charging in but rather switch between the Lane Shark and tree shear as needed and use the bush hog and grapple too. I understand that many may think I am going to wreck my tractor as you do not know me and my level skill at operating machinery. I have many 1000s of hours experience on tractors, dozers BH and other stuff doing just about anything you could imagine and have never broken one. The reason for the cab is to let me work whenever I want and also to force me to go slow and not jepordize myself or the tractor. I plan on the tractor being nice just as nice and shiny once I am done as when I start. I will have insurance also, in the unlikely chance I break a glass of something, and also liability insurance for coverage when I am working for hire on someone else property. Yes I could hire all this done but what fun is that and then I would have no good reason to buy a nice new trator and toys to go with it and be out money to boot. I also have the old trusty 3930 in case I have need of getting in the jungle. I will keep this thread updated as things progress for sure and probably do a Youtube channel with video coverage to boot.

Not sure why you came here asking advice when you already have infallible skills, a perfect plan, and no interest in the advice offered. I do wish you good luck in your efforts, and I hope it goes as planned.

 

[rustyshakelford]

Not sure why you came here asking advice when you already have infallible skills, a perfect plan, and no interest in the advice offered. I do wish you good luck in your efforts, and I hope it goes as planned.

Atleast he has insurance. He keeps mentioning that the soil is great. In soft soil, the tap roots shoots down and goes deep. I understand having 28/28 schedule and wanting to maximize your time and money but I think he is greatly underestimating the amount of work. From someone that has done this over a lot of land I feel for him. He's going to find the limitations real quick of a 70 hp tractors and the needs of lots of chainsaw time. It will wear you out to buck stumps, cut logs and limb them to mill standard. Then having to deal with the huge amount of slash and stumps. It's no joke

Brett

 

[countrybumpkin]

Not sure why you came here asking advice when you already have infallible skills, a perfect plan, and no interest in the advice offered. I do wish you good luck in your efforts, and I hope it goes as planned.

My thoughts also after reading the first few posts.

 

[sd455dan]

Renting equipment is not going to happen. Doing so would require I work my *** off, spend a ton of money with nothing to show for it and then still have to do way more manual labor than I have planned. Pine trees and root systems vary greatly where I live. The natural stands and fully mature trees have DEEP tap roots and you basically have to dig a hole the size od a small pond to remove them. These trees however were planted and fast growing shallow roots. Where they are planted used to be a nice field with great topsoil. As I have already mentioned, if they don't push over early easy then I will just use the tree shear and snip them off and buy a stump grinder (another cool toy I want anyway) and grind them out. When I had my little D-21 Komatsu dozer it would much similar trees these size over with easy with way less leverage too. Again if pushing over doesn't work as planned I will just shear them off and deal with the stumps later.

If the Pine trees are rooted like you think and they are and not to large, then your plan should work just fine.



We had to remove a bunch of naturally growing ones when we built our new place and unlike your trees they varied greatly in size and root structure. after renting the excavator we still had some to remove a while later.

I did push over a few small diameter ones with my similar weight tractor and other than worrying about which way the tree might fall if a wind gust should show up at the wrong time it worked OK .

The problem for me arose when I hit one with a tap root like this attached photo and It would not move so we cut it down and spent some of the day with the tractor a chain, chainsaw,shovels, pickaxe.
your plan of cutting the stubborn ones and then going after the stumps later sounds good-we also removed a few I cut down- and a was able to grapple the stump out in a single scoop year or 2 later on a rainy day(second picture)

There was not much rhyme or reason for the different root structures. Some were easy some not so easy.

ps. The safety factor of a construction duty ROPS when pushing over any tree with a good sized Ex or dozer-Priceless!

Please be careful

 

[lpigott]

My thoughts also after reading the first few posts.

Nowhere did I ask for advice. I simply stated my plan and asked for peoples thoughts. I know what I am doing isn't the normal nor is it the most productive and efficient means to reclaim the land. Everyone seems to be stuck on the tree pushing over talk and fail to read further! I have been in numerous forums and shared ideas and given/received advice and never have I seen so much negativity. I bet I have more mechanical knowledge and ability along with more machinery and tractor time than everyone of the nay sayers in this thread! Imagine me being so stupid to be able to sit on the steel island I'm on now and be in charge of 80 men and over 100,000 horsepower running just feet away from me as I type and not having enough sense to know what I am doing. Thanks for talking down to me in my own thread guys, your negativity is only inspirational motivation.

 

[rustyshakelford]

Nowhere did I ask for advice. I simply stated my plan and asked for peoples thoughts. I know what I am doing isn't the normal nor is it the most productive and efficient means to reclaim the land. Everyone seems to be stuck on the tree pushing over talk and fail to read further! I have been in numerous forums and shared ideas and given/received advice and never have I seen so much negativity. I bet I have more mechanical knowledge and ability along with more machinery and tractor time than everyone of the nay sayers in this thread! Imagine me being so stupid to be able to sit on the steel island I'm on now and be in charge of 80 men and over 100,000 horsepower running just feet away from me as I type and not having enough sense to know what I am doing. Thanks for talking down to me in my own thread guys, your negativity is only inspirational motivation.

You didn't ask for advice but wanted out thoughts? I'm sure your are capable at your job and probably can drive a tractor. I don't claim to be able to do your job. Could I figure it out, maybe with some help. What your wanting to do is what I do. Something I'm very familiar with. I know or atleast have an idea of what works, what tears up equipment and what doesn't. You have 15 acres of pine plantation. How many trees is that? 400-500 per acre? 6000-7500 trees is a ton to do with a grapple and tractor. Now your talking about cutting them off with a tree saw and grinding that many stumps is one of the most ambitious things I've ever heard. If you saying your trees are chip/saw which is 6" tops the base is going to be decent still.

I genuinely wish you luck on your project. Just don't want you to get overwhelmed, hurt or equipment torn up and want for you to have a realistic expectation of what you will be doing. The other thing with shoving a tree with a tractor is it often doesn't break the roots out. Now your fighting with it. It's not like a dozer where you shove it over, drop your blades angle down to catch the root and push it out.

When you get home give an acre a try and see how it goes. You very well may be 100% right and I'm speaking out my butt however, I think your going to find this is a long long term project. If you don't spend time on a saw your burn piles will be a nightmare to deal with and a mess to clean up. Also, be careful around the stump holes so your belly doesn't get torn up or tip you over.

Brett