pole barn

[Estif]

I suspect all data on how long posts will last will be anecdotal. But here are a couple anecdotes from my experience:

The deck Dad and I built over 20 years ago is still there, with no signs of deterioration in the posts. We set the posts in concrete; not just in dirt. And crowned the concrete so the water runs off.

I've found off cuts of treated lumber that had been sitting in debris piles for years with no evidence of deterioration. This is piles where old stumps had long since rotted into dirt. Beetles and insects crawling all around, but not even making a mark on the PT stuff.

The fence at my last place gave me a chance at side-by-side comparison. Apparently the previous owner built the fence (posts and cross pieces) with about half PT and used untreated for the rest. The posts were set in heavy clay soil. After 10-12 years, the untreated stuff wasn't doing so well. A lot of the posts would break off just below ground with a good hard shove. The PT stuff was fine.

Oh, and I'm a big fan of all-metal buildings. I'm living in one now as the temporary house and future mechanic shop while I save up to build the real house.

Steve

 

[gerard]

You may be able to pour a footing and place the post on top but you lose a lot of the lateral stability that you gain by placing the poles in the ground. It's best to insure the posts aren't sitting in water if possible (ie put some gravel in the bottom of the whole) Also laminated PT posts are superior to a solid 6x6 because the treatment penetrates the entire piece of wood. In a 6 x6 the very center often times doesn't receive treatment. (Morton barns all use laminated posts which are just PT 2x6's that are multiple lengths and then glued/nailed together to form a post. You use different lengths so you can stagger the joints)

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Fingerlakes Construction is a good company, but when I was getting quotes for my barn theirs was 2.5 times the low bid, and about 1.5 times the winning bid. And they left out some stuff.

There are plenty of good barn construction contractors, and it is worth your time to shop around. Here is a good site for locating some of the more serious builders:

http://www.postframe.org/index.htm

 

[uppermich]

I've got to let you know about the "hybrid " pole barn that I had put up...it is a pretty neat way to construct this type of building. This would be easy for even one person to prefab the 'ladders' and I really love the "built-in" shelving.

First of all , it has a concrete floor (not entirely necessary) and then 2 courses of block to get the wood away from the ground and a 2x6 base plate. You don't need treated lumber this way. The walls are built with 2x6's in 4' sections that are like ladders. Verticals 48" out to out and horizontal "steps" 24" on center. Then the ladders are raised onto the base plate and nailed together. The double verticals where 2 ladders are joined are the supports for the roof trusses. When the roof trusses are only 4' on center, it results in a nice strong roof. The horizontal ladder "steps" are the nailing surfaces for your siding and act like built in shelves on the inside.

I had the site prep done and then I had a pole building contractor build it for me. They showed up Monday morning and poured the floor, put up the block and started making the side walls. The next day they put up the side walls, the roof trusses the roof sheathing and started on the side wall sheathing. On Wednesday they put up the gable ends with the sliding 12' doors and man door at each end and finished the job as it was getting dark. They even painted the trim and wiped their fingerprints off the metal. The building is 32' x 48' and the building construction was about $12/sq ft with site prep and electrical extra. I called around and got a wide difference in pricing, but these guys were not only less expensive, but returned my calls right away, had a contract ready after giving me a phone quote and came on the day they promised and finished in 3 days. It pays to ask around!

You can see my cheap lighting - 4 chicken brooder heat lamps with regular 100 watt bulbs. That's my old Farmall M inside and the new Kubota outside (before the snow). In snow country, it is best to keep your doors in the gable ends.





Pat (Techno-Tractor Mom)

 

[dmccarty]

We looked at some property a couple of years ago that had a small farmhouse that was built around 1900.

The place had at least 6 outbuildings that were mainly post and beam construction. All the posts were red cedar. Some of the buildings were using red cedar logs as sill plates as well. I don't know if the outbuildings were built in 1900 but they had been around for a LONG time. They were structurally fine. The clapboards/siding needed work on some buildings but they were in no danger of falling down. You drive all around my part of NC and see old curing barns that are falling down so I was impressed with this guys outbuildings.

The seller was in his 80s and was the last of his generation. The house was so small that I don't know what one would do with it. IT was not in such good shape even though the man had thrown 15,000 dollars at the house. I think I would have rather lived in some of the outbuildings......

Someone else got the property. He also had an old FarmAll tractor that his daddy had bought ALONG time ago. Still worked and they still used it. I think they got their money out of that tractor!

I getting ready to use some red cedar as gate posts in the next month or two. I'm going to put gravel in the hole and use concrete as well. I figure it will last at least a few years. Mother Earth magazine's latest issue had an article that I just glanced through showing alternatives to PT. They showed a way to treat your own wood. I think they used borax and they were talking about creasote. I thought creasote was as "bad" as PT. They also talked about charing the part of the post that would be in the ground.

Twas interesting but I would like to know how long the wood is going to last....

Later...
Dan McCarty

 

[heehaw]

i've used a lot of cedar fence post, the red center doesn't rot, but the white outer part will, if the post is set in dirt, the post stays tight when the white rots, i guess the rain, etc causes the dirt to settle around the post. i don't know whats going to happen when you pour concrete around the cedar post/pole, i think the white will still rot??? the post/pole could get loose??? maybe/maybe not??
heehaw

 

[WVBill]

One of the books on pole buildings I read before I put mine up said not to use concrete around the poles for a similar reason. It said, over time the pole will shrink and in concrete it will get loose in the hole whereas if there's no concrete it can be tamped tight again.

Only one book out of five mentioned that so I went ahead and set mine in concrete.

WVBill

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Around here the good barn builders put a piece of rebar 12"-18" long through the post about 6"-10" up from the bottom and pour two bags of dry concrete under and around the post. Obviously, if your soil is bone dry the concrete will never set up. This seems to work very well under our soil conditions, and even if something shrinks a little the rebar is there to hold it together.

 

[Billc]

When we built our pole barns it never occured to me NOT to use concrete. The fellas I had help me (all they do is build pole barns and chicken houses) told me not to use concrete. I was told that tamping the dirt around the pole would do the trick. There is so much weight pushing down on the pole it will not come loose. Plus, I was told, that concrete would rot out the post faster than if it was just in dirt.

I took their advice. I figured their advice was costing them money, so it must be good advice.

I've not had a problem with any of the post coming loose.

Bill Cook

 

[cowboydoc]

Bill,
I'd have to agree with you. Back home we've got building that are 50-100 years old and those posts are as tight as the day they were put in. The only thing we did growing up and I still do is putting either some rocks or a concrete circle under the post to protect it from sinking and from rotting from the bottom. Then tack on some 1 foot 2x6's on the bottom and just tamp them in real good. Never had any problems with any of them. I really don't think that the concrete is necessary.