TYM T474 vs John Deere 4044M

   / TYM T474 vs John Deere 4044M #122  
Wow. So much incorrect information in one place....yes, companies use 0% offers to attract business. In that sense, you could call it a marketing scheme.

Thousands of people save millions of dollars getting zero percent. Those people tend to have excellent credit. The rub is not what you think. People with bad credit don't get the zero percent. Are the dealerships taking a loss? No! They are moving product and getting better rates on floor plan and more inventory. Profits come from ancillary sales like parts, accessories and labor.

Even if you took your assumption at face value, the price increases are across the board. That means your 'cash' price would be subsidizing my zero percent. Thanks, BTW.

I also found it rich that the only honest truck or car salesman in the country just happens to post here. My point is not to disparage you but to have you take a step back and consider you words more carefully. Assume positive intent in others. Not everyone has $50k to drop in cash on a tractor (or truck). Zero percent allows people to buy and dealerships to sell more tractors. Not everyone who has a zero percent deal is in League with evil intent on consuming the souls of their victims. Most are offering a service. Think of it like a modern computer printer. The prices are very low. Many are likely sold at a loss. They make money on the ink/toner.

Dealers want your business. The odds are better than 50% that people who get a tractor from that dealer will buy more things from the same dealer.

I spent most of my adult life in the lending business. 4-5 years of it was small business lending, including AG loans. Lots of people get zero percent. The government makes banks balance risk and zero % helps them get financially secure people to finance rather than pay cash. They may not make money directly on that loan, but that loan will allow the bank to make a higher risk loan to another customer at a higher rate. Oddly enough, the government also forces banks to make those riskier loans. It is not a scam, it is risk mitigation and benefits both the lenders and the borrowers... and the dealers.

Seriously, you sound very angry. Life is too short to get upset about misinformation. Take a walk, hug your kids, do whatever helps you relax.

Peace -T
And I spent much of my adult life in the woods, chainsaw in hand, driving skidders hither and dither so whatda I know.
Don't start off with a disparagement with your "so much incorrect misinformation in one spot" crap. Of course a financial "lender" such as yourself would love anything that instigates paper.
Again, I am not proposing everyone pay cash nor go after the "cash price. If anyone is so misinformed in what i'm trying to say, it is you.
Why must we resort to subterfuge to gain business?
Your points are supporting subterfuge. The only reason they deal with people with good credit is the same exact reason they lend to anyone....low pay back risk because for those who are credit risks, they are automatically drawn to the shiny new object of 0%. Good credit priority offsets the the draw of the habitual delinquent individual.

There was nothing wrong with saying "this tractor will cost $17,900 and with 4.9% it will end up costing you $22,000 or whatever.
Instead, financial wizard heads came up with what they thought was the perfect business scheme of saying, this $17,900 tractor will now cost you $22,000 right up front but you'll be getting this loan for 0%..Of course, they don't mention the first part of that sentence and they can plop any price that subsidizes they're r.o.i. and of their own choosing.
Well I say "Bull****te" to all of that.. It has saved no one a thin dime and I can easily understand a financial person such as yourself would find nothing wrong with that as long as it manifests business right? "For the good of all" kind of thing right? "We are only what we really are in the dark" right? All the rest is reputation, right?
This sneaky coercion by retail perpetrated on consumers who rely on lies to sell product, is a disparagement to ourselves as human beings. Your mentality seems to justify that if dishonesty is so abundant, it mustn't be noticeable any longer.
Also, I don't care what you find "rich".

If dealers want to establish business then they should be good at what they do. Be honest, forthright and supporting.

You want to post your opinion fine, but don't go off on your psychological tangent of what I need to do to "calm" myself.
That part is NONE of your freakin business.
 
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   / TYM T474 vs John Deere 4044M #123  
Transmission can be removed without splitting the tractor!

 
   / TYM T474 vs John Deere 4044M #124  
Unfortunately, this video just seems to confirm what others have said. John Deere's are assembled in the US, but not manufactured in the US. At least the video certainly didn't show any manufacturing going on. It showed assembly. Even one of the "manufacturing" engineers explained that her job is to "design the process for how to out together the tractors."

It's an assembly line, not a manufacturing facility. A subtle but very important difference.
Correct
 
   / TYM T474 vs John Deere 4044M #125  
Can't say I've ever seen that...

See posts #59 and #61 in this thread.

The justification for buying the TYM over the John Deere is "buy American". The clear implication is the John Deere 4-series is somehow more American than the TYM.

Then, it is stated, "Ultimately, Even if a USA-Made product is 10X, im still going to buy it over the foreign counterpart." Again, this is stated in the context of which tractor to buy.

The implication is clear, although unfortunately not supported by facts.

John Deere is an American company, and maybe all the poster meant to imply is to support an American company. But, it clearly states the belief that the John Deere is "made" in America. Similarly, as implied in later posts in this thread, the argument is provided that by buying a 3 or 4-series Deere one is a proud supporter of US manufacturing might. Again, not true.
 
   / TYM T474 vs John Deere 4044M #126  
Transmission can be removed without splitting the tractor!


Maybe someone will market a plastic model of that transmission and save me from my curiousity.

I-HMT (Integrated Hydro Mechanical Transmission). Wow.​


Yanmar is just so freak'n clever at designing good stuff. For 40years now most compacts still use their bevel gear front axle, their engines drive the world's super tankers, and I think their powershift was the best hydraulic shuttle tranny ever.
Clearly Deere thinks Yanmar is amazing. JD makes no apologies for their Yanmar content. If you take all the Yanmar parts off of a compact John Deere you'd be left with something like a pedal-powered unicycle, a box of disconnected spares, and a 3pt hitch.
Well, that might be a slight exaggeration - it depends on where they are assembled I guess.

What could be better than buying Japanese quality engineering & manufacturing combined with US assembly? With that combo we can support local jobs, drive Japanese tractors, and still have enough 0% money left over to invest in JD stock.
rScotty
 
   / TYM T474 vs John Deere 4044M #127  
Wow, way to weave it all together!
 
   / TYM T474 vs John Deere 4044M #128  
Boy, you really don't like Deere, do ya?

The compact Deeres (including my 4052) are assembled in Augusta, Georgia...so the assembly techs, ME's and others do get a paycheck and benefits
Do you have any videos of those Branson tractors being made.....and where?
After seeing the videos posted above I must admit JD compact tractor American assembly is more elaborate than I was lead to believe. I apologize for being misinformed.

No, I don't have any videos of Branson Assembly operations. My dealer has been to their assembly plant in Georgia several times and has described to me that assembly process in detail which sound very similar to what JD does. The Kubota assembly American plants are fairly well documented throughout the internet and they do seem to be even more elaborate and cover a larger range of equipment, an includes a rather large range of American made components.

You are absolutely right, I really don't like John Deere. My prejudice obviously shows. I do think their tractors are actually fine. They are on par with their competition but at an highly inflated price based on falsely presumed superior quality. The sanctimonious attitude at the various JD dealerships I have been to over the years really bothers me. It seems to me to reflect the attitude of the entire company. Also I don't like, in real farm equipment, how JD has been trying vigorously to monopolize the repair of their equipment, and put independent repair shops out of business. I could go on. All in all, they just comes across as a company I would prefer not to support.
 
   / TYM T474 vs John Deere 4044M #129  
Are you really naïve enough to think a JD4044 is 100% American made? Or even 60%? Unlike JD's larger tractors, the JD4044 and their other compacts are no more "American made" than any other Korean, Japanese or Indian tractor. In fact some "foreign" tractors (Kubota and Branson for instance) have a considerably larger percentage of their final assembly done in the States. The American JD workers get no benefit at all from the sale of JD compact tractors. The only Americans who makes more money from a JD compact tractor sale are the overpaid JD executives and the company stock holders (a large percentage of whom are actually Chinese).
Tell me this. Where in that did i say or state any facts about where the deere is made? Please show me where i said and cited facts that its made 60% in america, or 100% america. Because i never said that. All that i said was i would rather spend my money on american made products. So don't try to put words in my mouth that i did not say.
 
   / TYM T474 vs John Deere 4044M #130  
And I spent much of my adult life in the woods, chainsaw in hand, driving skidders hither and dither so whatda I know.
Don't start off with a disparagement with your "so much incorrect misinformation in one spot" crap. Of course a financial "lender" such as yourself would love anything that instigates paper.
Again, I am not proposing everyone pay cash nor go after the "cash price. If anyone is so misinformed in what i'm trying to say, it is you.
Why must we resort to subterfuge to gain business?
Your points are supporting subterfuge. The only reason they deal with people with good credit is the same exact reason they lend to anyone....low pay back risk because for those who are credit risks, they are automatically drawn to the shiny new object of 0%. Good credit priority offsets the the draw of the habitual delinquent individual.

There was nothing wrong with saying "this tractor will cost $17,900 and with 4.9% it will end up costing you $22,000 or whatever.
Instead, financial wizard heads came up with what they thought was the perfect business scheme of saying, this $17,900 tractor will now cost you $22,000 right up front but you'll be getting this loan for 0%..Of course, they don't mention the first part of that sentence and they can plop any price that subsidizes they're r.o.i. and of their own choosing.
Well I say "Bull****te" to all of that.. It has saved no one a thin dime and I can easily understand a financial person such as yourself would find nothing wrong with that as long as it manifests business right? "For the good of all" kind of thing right? "We are only what we really are in the dark" right? All the rest is reputation, right?
This sneaky coercion by retail perpetrated on consumers who rely on lies to sell product, is a disparagement to ourselves as human beings. Your mentality seems to justify that if dishonesty is so abundant, it mustn't be noticeable any longer.
Also, I don't care what you find "rich".

If dealers want to establish business then they should be good at what they do. Be honest, forthright and supporting.

You want to post your opinion fine, but don't go off on your psychological tangent of what I need to do to "calm" myself.
That part is NONE of your freakin business.
You seem to have it all figured out. Maybe start a business selling tractors and show everyone else how it should be done?

You can belabor the point all you want, but it doesn't change a single fact. That's the way it works at the vast majority of business. The price is the price regardless of how they get there. Want a tractor, find the place you are comfortable with and go with it. Don't like they way someone does business, don't do business with them. Seems pretty simple.
 
   / TYM T474 vs John Deere 4044M #132  
@rScotty VAG is a German acronym that represents the VW Group vehicles. I should know the German words in the acronym. Many think it is VW Audi Group... but that is not quite correct.
Wow, and I thought is was an abbreviation of the female external genitalia
 
   / TYM T474 vs John Deere 4044M #133  
When I went tractor shopping with my nephew one thing we both noticed was how loud the hydrostat was on the TYMs versus a similar sized Deere.
Nephew bought the TYM and took it home and within 1-2 hours the Hydro got much louder, to the point he couldn't stand it and returned the tractor. He bought the JD and although the Hydro has remained quieter it has had a problem that bugs him with a shudder in the FEL hydraulics so nothing ended up being "Perfect"

ps. Another thing was some of the IDI diesels bugged me with the rattle they produce, even warm. I much prefer some of the direct injected diesels smooth sound especially after they are warmed up.
 
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   / TYM T474 vs John Deere 4044M #135  
When I went tractor shopping with my nephew one thing we both noticed was how loud the hydrostat was on the TYMs versus a similar sized Deere.
Nephew bought the TYM and took it home and within 1-2 hours the Hydro got much louder, to the point he couldn't stand it and returned the tractor. He bought the JD and although the Hydro has remained quieter it has had a problem that bugs him with a shudder in the FEL hydraulics so nothing ended up being "Perfect"

ps. Another thing was some of the IDI diesels bugged me with the rattle they produce, even warm. I much prefer some of the direct injected diesels smooth sound especially after they are warmed up.

Hydro noise IS something I strongly considered while tractor shopping. It is why I cross shopped Deere, they actually publish cab dB readings.


It’s pretty quiet on my MF except during dramatic power changes but that’s to be expected.
 
   / TYM T474 vs John Deere 4044M #136  
Hozzie, yes there can be a multitude of reasons for price increases but that is not my argument. The jist of "0'% as a marketing scheme, has substantially added to the pricing of commodity.
It is the "big lie" about the whole thing that bothers me the most.
The gullible fall for this and run to buy stuff thinking they are not using their money and its not costing them anything to do so. That is total bull****e.

Don't start off with a disparagement with your "so much incorrect misinformation in one spot" crap. Of course a financial "lender" such as yourself would love anything that instigates paper.

Glad to know all the folks who buy Kubota or Deere for cash or 0% are a bunch of Gullible Lemmings that needs their daddy’s there to help buy a tractor.

My Gosh. . . Just enjoy your Mahindra, and be glad you aren’t one of the lemmings.

And when pointing the finger at “disparaging” remarks, look at your own posts.
 
   / TYM T474 vs John Deere 4044M #137  
I'm buying a new tractor and it's between the TYM T474 ($35k new) and John Deere 4044 ($52k new). They are similar in specs, but about $17k price difference. Obviously JD has better brand, more dealers, and sounds like when I talk to folks, a better tractor.

I'm trying to warrant spending significantly more considering this is my 1st tractor for my 10 acre piece of property. I'll be using it to do some gardening, landscaping, snow removal, and give rides to kids. When things break, I'd like to figure out easily how to fix (ideally more reliable the better..)

Opinions welcome, thank you
Neighbor arrived in 2016 and wanted a new JD tractor. I put them onto a 4052 to fit their requirements as a favor since they were urbanites and didn't know what they needed. I did so because JD has the field maintenance program...about $375 plus parts per year she said and they are doctors with clean finger nails. That's the only reason.

Their fuel tank filler is on top of the left rear fender. They refill their low usage with 5 gallon cans of diesel. To do that they have to get up on a step ladder.......my Branson, Ford, and LS tractors can be filled easily standing on the ground...to name another reason. Another is that the QD FEL device fits JD Implements. My Branson and LS with loaders are equipped with Skid Steer dimensions and I can buy implements everywhere at reasonable prices.

Just my perspective as I see it. Others have theirs per their perspectives.
 
   / TYM T474 vs John Deere 4044M #138  
Hydro noise IS something I strongly considered while tractor shopping. It is why I cross shopped Deere, they actually publish cab dB readings.


It’s pretty quiet on my MF except during dramatic power changes but that’s to be expected
I just bought an LS MT2-25S (hydro) last January. Only time I hear the hydro whine is when it's grunting and its detectable, not overbearing. Otherwise all you hear are engine RPMs and with the Yanmar 3 cyl., thats nothing but sweet music.
 
   / TYM T474 vs John Deere 4044M #139  
Neighbor arrived in 2016 and wanted a new JD tractor. I put them onto a 4052 to fit their requirements as a favor since they were urbanites and didn't know what they needed. I did so because JD has the field maintenance program...about $375 plus parts per year she said and they are doctors with clean finger nails. That's the only reason.

Their fuel tank filler is on top of the left rear fender. They refill their low usage with 5 gallon cans of diesel. To do that they have to get up on a step ladder...
I have a 4052 and a bad arm, so I know what a hassle refueling can be...
Bought this a couple years ago...works great
Works great, but don't think it'll work from the ground. I set the cans on the tailgate of my truck or Gator
Takes maybe a minute to pump 5 gallons.
They do want to watch it so it doesn't cavitate the pump...that would be their fault, not the pump's fault

Most implements are available with JD QA and SSQA. I thought about an adapter, but I haven't found any FEL mounted implements that aren't available with JD QA
 
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   / TYM T474 vs John Deere 4044M #140  
Unfortunately, this video just seems to confirm what others have said. John Deere's are assembled in the US, but not manufactured in the US. At least the video certainly didn't show any manufacturing going on. It showed assembly. Even one of the "manufacturing" engineers explained that her job is to "design the process for how to out together the tractors."

It's an assembly line, not a manufacturing facility. A subtle but very important difference.
Just like Ford, GM, General Electric Aviation, Boeing...hundreds of others...including other US Tractor manufacturers...
This has been American manufacturing since, at least, WW II.
As I'd written in a previous post, I work for an aerospace supplier to the OEMs
Edit: This doesn't just apply to American OEM's, BTW. I'd wager most large OEMs (US and world-wide) are multi-national and their supply chains are world wide as well.
Gotta get used to modern manufacturing, folks...


So, what's your point other than not liking John Deere?
 
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