Wind Turbine ********. Just opened the mail and seen the plan for three massive units

[gsganzer]

For the anti Nuke crowd..... did you realize that if you had all the waste from every plant ever built to deal with, you only need a hole 1/2 the size of Manhattan Island? It is a risk vs reward vs cost per watt deal.

You are grown men and all have internet connected computers. Take off the rose colored glasses and propose a better, more efficient, more cost effective solution than nuclear power to reduce emissions and consumption of resources.

And most of that waste was generated from plants that operate quite differently then the newest designs and before waste was processed and refined to make more fuel. I read an article that all of the waste generated in the US since the start of the nuclear program would only fill a football field 3 feet deep. I was involved in a project about 10 years ago where they were testing "vitrifying" nuclear waste, where it was cast into glass blocks to prevent leaching during long-term storage.

If the US would standardize on one or two plant designs, construction, maintenance and overhaul costs would drop dramatically for nuclear power generation.

Like I said earlier in this post, our energy plan needs to be a comprehensive plan that includes nuclear, renewable, fossil and conservation.

 

[Sodo]

Like I said earlier in this post, our energy plan needs to be a comprehensive plan that includes nuclear, renewable, fossil and conservation.

Would be nice, but there as long as there exists a buyer, petrol left in the ground is like leaving money on the table.

One way to reduce the petroleum cost to the consumer is to pursue and expand alternate energies that compete for the consumer dollar. If the alternative energies gain a foothold, the price of oil has to drop. You fellas who think you have to battle alternative energies, what do you expect to gain from this?

I'm quite interested in why our fuel prices have dropped (20-30%) in the last year. Could it be due to conservation? Due to reduced demand because of alternative energies? Or has Big Oil manually increased output to reduce the price and stimulate demand? To get people to stop complaining about ( or support) Big Oil? Did Big Oil increase output so those who invest in alternative energies lose their shirts? Those are easy, normal tactics when you have control of the petroleum spigot, record profits and good supply.

I remember back when everyone was afraid we'd run out of oil?. :laughing: Now we're burning much much more and no end in sight - sort of. Maybe due to emergence of alternative energies they want to get it all out of the ground and converted to $$ before the game's over.

I don't expect to get this answer from "public info websites" created by competing energy companies. Not sure where to get it.

 

[houstonscott]

Why Tesla's Powerwall Is Just Another Toy For Rich Green People - Forbes

HS

 

[Sodo]

I don't expect to get this answer from "public info websites" created by competing energy companies. Not sure where to get it.

,,,,,,it's certainly not from Forbes! :laughing:

The current energy industry produces a reliable profit for investors. By default Forbes advice to their readers - will be articles to keep their readers invested in energies they have control of. And of course discredit energies they don't (yet) have control of. What else could their advice be? They are not a news agency, they are an investment reporting agency with tuth as their guide :laughing: right?

Everybody knows that the price of energy storage will come down, and sooner with aggressive development of the technology. Count your blessings if rich greenies will buy into it - they could be doing you a favor by volunteering as guinea pigs.

A PC in 1981 cost $3,000 (= $8,000 in 2015 dollars). Today a PC costs less than 5% of that. Certainly the Tesla Powerwall will have challenges, but discrediting it based on the current cost is pulling the wool over your eyes,,,,,,that's just ludicrous and intended for a dopey reader.

 

[houstonscott]

,,,,,,it's certainly not from Forbes! :laughing: The current energy industry produces a reliable profit for investors. By default Forbes advice to their readers - will be articles to keep their readers invested in energies they have control of. And of course discredit energies they don't (yet) have control of. What else could their advice be? They are not a news agency, they are an investment reporting agency with tuth as their guide :laughing: right? Everybody knows that the price of energy storage will come down, and sooner with aggressive development of the technology. Count your blessings if rich greenies will buy into it - they could be doing you a favor by volunteering as guinea pigs. A PC in 1981 cost $3,000 (= $8,000 in 2015 dollars). Today a PC costs less than 5% of that. Certainly the Tesla Powerwall will have challenges, but discrediting it based on the current cost is pulling the wool over your eyes,,,,,,that's just ludicrous and intended for a dopey reader.

Got news for you, the first Mac cost about $1200, today a good laptop is $2500. While what they do has increased the price has remained constant or increased. HS

 

[Egon]

Got news for you, the first Mac cost about $1200, today a good laptop is $2500. While what they do has increased the price has remained constant or increased. HS

What happened to wages in the interm.

 

[Sodo]

Got news for you, the first Mac cost about $1200, today a good laptop is $2500.

HS I get the impression the validity of your news sources takes a back seat to your other concerns.

 

[houstonscott]

What happened to wages in the interm.

Depends on where you live, Detroit, Baltimore, old NE yestercities, maybe not so good. Houston, Phoenix, Dallas, Austin, great.

 

[houstonscott]

HS I get the impression the validity of your news sources takes a back seat to your other concerns.

I'd love to see a battery break through, but LI batteries are 30+ years old, solar PV is 60+ years old, I'm under no delusion putting a few hundred AA in a pretty box is ground breaking, or game changing product. While it's designed for home use straight up, and that's great, I'm afraid the costs still put this outside the box. Still far simpler and cheaper to buy power at night, not to mention fire hazard of LI on that scale and size anywhere near my home. It's actually more interesting to me as standby or emergency power, compared to cost of diesel standby unit. HS

 

[gsganzer]

I'm quite interested in why our fuel prices have dropped (20-30%) in the last year. Could it be due to conservation? Due to reduced demand because of alternative energies? Or has Big Oil manually increased output to reduce the price and stimulate demand? To get people to stop complaining about ( or support) Big Oil? Did Big Oil increase output so those who invest in alternative energies lose their shirts? Those are easy, normal tactics when you have control of the petroleum spigot, record profits and good supply.

Oil prices dropped because Saudi Arabia flooded the market with oil. Supposedly this was a tactical move by Saudi Arabia to help drop the price and put North American production companies (probably who you keep referring to as "big oil") out of business as a way to eliminate competition. It's also suspected that the flood of the market and plummet in prices was coordinated by the US and its allies, as a way to keep Vladimir Putin in check. Russia cannot produce oil at the current prices and any economic sanctions imposed due to their invasion of Ukraine will have a greater impact.

 

[KiwiBro]

There was a short analysis published yesterday showing that a Tesla 10KW battery, fully utilized (2 KW/5 hours per day) for its life of 10 years would deliver electricity at $ 0.66/KWH, not including the solar panel and inverter costs.

Paul

the 10kWh option is not for daily cycling. Further, it is the whole system cost that needs to be highlighted because a battery is useless in isolation.

 

[Egon]

Depends on where you live, Detroit, Baltimore, old NE yestercities, maybe not so good. Houston, Phoenix, Dallas, Austin, great.

Care to comment on the dollar valve of wages in the two different times?

 

[houstonscott]

Care to comment on the dollar valve of wages in the two different times?

The value of wages and the dollar are lower now, printing 6 trillion from thin air has consequences. . HS

 

[ozley]

The value of wages and the dollar are lower now, printing 6 trillion from thin air has consequences. . HS

really

 

[techman]

the 10kWh option is not for daily cycling. Further, it is the whole system cost that needs to be highlighted because a battery is useless in isolation.

Less daily cycling only increases per KW cost

 

[Happy Gilmore]

Wind farms are eyesores for sure, I don't mind the look of solar fields at all, wind farm though, you couldn't give me enough money if they had to be on my property with me living there.

 

[Loren49]

After living about 1200 ft from a 1.5MW wind turbine (395 ft tall) for the past 9 years, I am entertained by the gloom and doom crowd. I am on the edge of a 195 unit wind farm.

There are many, many things that would be much more objectionable to me. The vast majpority of residents of our County are satisfied with this sort of industry in our back yard. The PILOT contributes 9 million a year in tax relief plus about 1.5 million to landowners along with a good number of jobs. They do not require infrastructure improvements by local municipalities as most industries do. They require negligible acreage (farms use all but a very small footprint from the tower) I've heard all the gloom and doom many times and all of it is exaggerated/distorted. The vibration claim is made up....no negative health effects....those who have a great dislike are actually annoyed by them but that's it!
Wind turbine noise not linked to health problems, Health Canada finds - Technology & Science - CBC News
A Health Canada study has found no link between exposure to wind turbine noise and negative health effects in people.

Wind turbine noise did not have any measurable effect on illness and chronic disease, stress and sleep quality, Health Canada said.

However, the louder the wind turbine noise was, the more people reported being very or extremely annoyed, the department reported in a summary released today of the Wind Turbine Noise and Health Study.

The $2.1-million study, conducted with Statistics Canada in southern Ontario and Prince Edward Island, was launched in 2012. At that time, groups such as Wind Concerns Ontario had alleged that growing numbers of wind turbines were making people ill.

Sound: wind energy and human health
Studies show no evidence for direct human health effects from wind turbines
The credible peer-reviewed scientific data and various government reports in the United States, Canada, Australia and the United Kingdom refute the claim that wind farms cause negative health impacts.

In their own independent reviews of available evidence, Ontario’s Chief Medical Officer of Health and Australia’s National Health and Medical Research Council found that sound from wind turbines does not cause negative health impacts.
Additionally, the Massachusetts Departments of Environmental Protection and of Public Health recently commissioned a panel of experts with backgrounds in public health, epidemiology, toxicology, neurology and sleep medicine, neuroscience, and mechanical engineering to analyze “the biological plausibility or basis for health effects of turbines (noise, vibration, and flicker).” The review of existing studies included both peer-reviewed and non-peer reviewed literature.
========================

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder and many find this means of production of electricity quite pleasing. (Beats living next to nuclear, coal, gas production plants or mines/wells)

Loren

 

[aczlan]

Got news for you, the first Mac cost about $1200, today a good laptop is $2500. While what they do has increased the price has remained constant or increased. HS

$2500? Try $1500. Last fall I bought a Latitude E65xx (15" screen, 4th gen i5, 8GB of RAM, 500GB spinning disk, 128GB SSD, Win7 Pro, ABGN wireless, Bluetooth, backlit keyboard with a built in 10key pad and a 3 year NBD onsite warranty) for just under $1500. Granted, I ordered the SSD and 4GB of the RAM from Amazon, but still.

Aaron Z

 

[TomSeller]

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder and many find this means of production of electricity quite pleasing. (Beats living next to nuclear, coal, gas production plants or mines/wells)

Very true

 

[KiwiBro]

Less daily cycling only increases per KW cost

Which is partly why the German battery option with Sony's batteries is more compelling, and it's already on the market. Tesla is a day late and a buck short from a pure specs perspective, but nobody else in this market can hype it like they can and I would also suggest nobody else can milk the subsidies quite as good as them also.

I can't help but feel just their marketing ability and reach is going to be rising the tide for everyone else, growing the overall market like very few players in such a market could ever hope to achieve without Tesla's presence.