Confused on PTO generator size

[gogojuice]

I'm not sure what type of panel is in my basement. I know its 200 amps though. As I don't see myself getting a bigger tractor any time soon. It's not needed on this property 2 acres, cleared and in good shape. I'm thinking that a 12-15 kw may be overboard if I can only produce about 7.5 with the bx. Then perhaps I should be looking at the 10 kw versions.

I think this is my first job to get sorted out. The size that I can honestly use. I believe that I could tailor my needs to what power I was able to produce?

For looking at various sites, there seems to be a wide range of how many kw I would need.

Does anyone know of an honest / good one?

As I said.. I'm not knowledgeable on this topic… so… this may be a dumb question, but if my furnace and water heater are natural gas does that lighten the load?

 

[aczlan]

I'm not sure what type of panel is in my basement. I know its 200 amps though. As I don't see myself getting a bigger tractor any time soon. It's not needed on this property 2 acres, cleared and in good shape. I'm thinking that a 12-15 kw may be overboard if I can only produce about 7.5 with the bx. Then perhaps I should be looking at the 10 kw versions.

IMO, it depends on if you are buying new or used. If buying new, I would go with a 10kw one as its a standard size and resale should be easier. If buying used, you might get a better deal on a larger one.

As I said.. I'm not knowledgeable on this topic so this may be a dumb question, but if my furnace and water heater are natural gas does that lighten the load?

Quite a bit.

Aaron Z

 

[Soundguy]

the btu comes fromt he gas. pilot and control electroncs are easy.

in an emergency. all you may really need is water and refer.

I know in times of extended outtages.. to conserve fuel. we only powere dup every 4 hours to run the refer for an hour, and pump up the well, then alternator over to using the water heater to heat the load pumped up. with being carefull of openingthe fridge only when needed. you can run a house at emergency level for a week on 10g of fuel... environmental controls were off... so when it's hot.. yer hot. when it's old.. you bundle up..e tc.

 

[grsthegreat]

I'm not sure what type of panel is in my basement. I know its 200 amps though. As I don't see myself getting a bigger tractor any time soon. It's not needed on this property 2 acres, cleared and in good shape. I'm thinking that a 12-15 kw may be overboard if I can only produce about 7.5 with the bx. Then perhaps I should be looking at the 10 kw versions.

I think this is my first job to get sorted out. The size that I can honestly use. I believe that I could tailor my needs to what power I was able to produce?

For looking at various sites, there seems to be a wide range of how many kw I would need.

Does anyone know of an honest / good one?

As I said.. I'm not knowledgeable on this topic… so… this may be a dumb question, but if my furnace and water heater are natural gas does that lighten the load?

furnace and water heater are usually the largest loads on residential units. An electric furnace can add 80-120 amps (20 - 30KW) to a system. The average water heater can easily use 5,000 - 6,000 watts.

Using gas fires furnace and water heaters would only make a small demand on the generator....like maybe 1 amp (100 - 200 watts) for fan and controls.

 

[MikePA]

I'm not sure what type of panel is in my basement. I know its 200 amps though. As I don't see myself getting a bigger tractor any time soon. It's not needed on this property 2 acres, cleared and in good shape. I'm thinking that a 12-15 kw may be overboard if I can only produce about 7.5 with the bx. Then perhaps I should be looking at the 10 kw versions.

No offense, but focusing on the generator is going about this backwards.

1. List the appliances, lights, devices, you must run, in all seasons of the year.
2. List the appliances, lights, devices, you want to run, in all seasons of the year.

This is no more complicated than walking around the house, yard, garage, etc., pretending the power is out and making a list.

3. Map every item on your list to a circuit in your breaker box, noting the voltage and the amperage of the circuit.
4. Total the 110v circuits and the 220v circuits and associated amps.

A spreadsheet works really well for this exercise.

5. Sit back and review the list. You will probably end up moving your "musts" and "wants" around.
6. Note any circuits that have to be on at the same time.

With this information, you'll be able to look for a generator and transfer switch.

One of the nice features of my automatic transfer switch is it does automatic load balancing between all the circuits and allows me to identify, by circuit, whether it can be load balanced, minimum on time, minimum off time, etc.

 

[Gary Fowler]

No offense, but focusing on the generator is going about this backwards.

1. List the appliances, lights, devices, you must run, in all seasons of the year.
2. List the appliances, lights, devices, you want to run, in all seasons of the year.

This is no more complicated than walking around the house, yard, garage, etc., pretending the power is out and making a list.

3. Map every item on your list to a circuit in your breaker box, noting the voltage and the amperage of the circuit.
4. Total the 110v circuits and the 220v circuits and associated amps.

A spreadsheet works really well for this exercise.

5. Sit back and review the list. You will probably end up moving your "musts" and "wants" around.
6. Note any circuits that have to be on at the same time.

With this information, you'll be able to look for a generator and transfer switch.

One of the nice features of my automatic transfer switch is it does automatic load balancing between all the circuits and allows me to identify, by circuit, whether it can be load balanced, minimum on time, minimum off time, etc.

While tallying up these circuits remember that not many circuits are required to run all of the time so even though you tally up 100 amps you may not need but 1 of the 20 amp circuits at any given time and it wont be pulling 20 amps if your house is wired correctly. You do have to account for any startup load for a large appliance like AC for your Genset needs if you plan to use that equipment but for those you can use the surge amp rating for your generator.

For my house, all electric, to use my central heat would require 100 amps minimum to power the heating elements and to get that I would need a 30KvA minimum, so no HVAC for me nor will I try to power my hot water heater, 9000 watts continuous. If I were into a long period of time without power, I could drop out one of the heating elements and get some hot water if needed, but for short outages, I will just do without the hot water. But I can power the rest of my house using power sparingly and not using oven or over one burner on my range at one time while using my 8000 running watts Generac generator. Most of the lighting is LED so I have no issue with lighting, most cooking is with an electric skillet so that isn't an issue and fridge and freezer wont take a lot of power as they can go for 24 hours without power if doors are kept closed. As for summer time cooling, I have a 110v window AC that I can install in one of the bedrooms and cool only that room at night so I can sleep comfortably. As for heat in winter, I have a portable propane heater that will provide enough heat to keep the house almost comfortable and nothing wrong with wearing a jacket to keep warm, even if power is on, we keep our thermostat at 68f in winter.

 

[MacTractor]

This is exactly what I need but it would appear that is not approved in the Province of NB.....

Will probably end up with a double throw 3 pole switch that is ratd for exterior.

The Gener-link is the among the simplest and economical methods to power the entire electrical service with up to 10 or 12.5KW of power. Even includes a 20ft power cable. Max rating is 40amp per line. Probably the easiest unit to satisfy electrical inspectors with too.
The sliding interlock bolted onto the face of the existing breaker panel is probably the cheapest if there is a way to run power from inside to outside the house. More capacity possible too above 40amps.

 

[daybreak1998]

Howdy,

Generator sizing?
Do you have a well? usual smallest size would be around 6000watt generator

Do you want minimalist living? your on city water? nat gas water heater? you could probably get by with a 2000watt unit

Do you want to have most? around a full 30amp capable generator (7500watt and higher)

Lights in a house are nothing... lights just really do not use much power.

PTO Generator = don't get all caught up in what your tractor puts out. Yes, they say the rule of thumb for tractor horsepower is 2hp for 1 kw power. That is only a very rough idea, to help noobies understand. To be a little more precise, you could use a better formula of 1.82hp=1kw power produced.

10KW PTO generator would be fine, although, for a little more, better AVR capability, and power surge motor starting ability, and less variability with power draw changes. I would rather go for a 15kw PTO unit

15kw PTO generator hook-up
to get the most out of all that available power to your panel, you could use a interlock and double pole 60amp breaker.

AVR= automatic voltage regulation = does just that, it means its going to be more electronic friendly of power.

With any generator, you will want a clean 60Hz cycle, and to keep it on that 60Hz during loads as well. That is the most important part of power from the generator. 60Hz and 110-130volts

PTO Generators = smaller units have internal mass rotation of 3600rpms (internal 2-pole alternator) while larger units will spin at 1800rpms (internal 4-pole alternator) This is part of the reasoning of gear box translation from tractor 540rpm PTO through the gearing to make the correct 60Hz power.

PTO generator = Need to use your tractor to power it. OK, How much yard cleanup are you gonna have? how much snow is gotta be moved? 3-4 hours? OK, now hook up the generator and make power

 

[gogojuice]

Thanks for all the info.. I have a kubota bx 2670 so thats about 19.5 rear pto. (not changing the tractor or property 2.0 acres cleared… this is the retirement home)

I would like to keep the house with as much power as possible, keeping in mind cost and limitations of the tractor and my appliances.

Mike I know you suggested not looking at the generator… but I think I would get the one that is the biggest for the tractor, so that takes care of that factor. I can't produce more than my tractor. I was hoping that I would be able to power the whole house and not have to pick certain circuits. Perhaps I was hoping for too much power.

We don't get hurricanes / tornadoes up here that many people get. So clean up is not the issue. For up here it is downed power lines due to snow primarily. Ice storms. We have been fortunate at our place, but further south there are reports of people being without power for about a week. So I don't think yard clean up is an issue. Perhaps clearing the driveway after the snow has stopped (2 hrs approx)

My house setup:

- Natural gas water supplies. (water heater / furnace / fireplace)
- Well water and water softener
- Fridge
- Freezer
- Microwave
- Electric stove
- Electric washer / dryer
- Electric dishwasher
- Air Conditioner (not sure what size.. its buried under snow right now)
- Pool 18x36. (not sure on equipment. it's snowing lol)
- Various electronic items

These are all the power hungry items I can think of. I have no idea what I could run from that list. Things would change as the seasons / circumstances dictate.

Hope that adds a bit more info

 

[batwing]

We have a 6000 watt gen with a 11 hp. gas engine we bought 6 years ago when power was going to be off for several days. We ran everything in our house except electric stove including window air conditioner,(have gas water heater) done great on gas. I put sea-foam in it and let it run all the fuel out of carb, let set for 4 years before it was needed again. not a lot of money, Happy Happy Happy!!!

Ron