The younger workforce.

[newbury]

<snip>
I told my kids and grand kids that a good vocational school where you learn a skill is way better than a college where you learn stuff. When I was hiring, the skills the candidates had outweighed the degrees.

College is not for everyone. And at some point people may start to realize that not everyone is above average.

A college degree is not really needed for probably 90 per cent of the workforce. A willingness and capability to learn new skills is needed.

High school AND college have become advanced day care for many.

 

[STx]

If you yourself admit the job it too hard for 90% of the people over 30, then you can't complain when 90% quit. For example.... your wash out rate is similar to the Delta Force and Navy Seals. Good grief.

The work is lawn maintenance in Houston. It's physically demanding work but it's not impossible, I was doing it until I was almost 40 and could work circles around the 20 somethings. The problem isn't inability with those over 30, it's more unwillingness to spend all day in the heat and humidity.

For what the job is, I paid employees well. Helpers were making $800 or so a week and leads $1000 or so a week. The work is seasonal but we work 42 weeks out of the year so it was enough to be able to support yourself if someone was willing to work. Pay was based on productivity though so, those that didn't want to work didn't earn very much and didn't last long. That was most of them.

I can't even begin to count the number of guys that never showed up for an interview or came to the interview but didn't show up for the first day, etc.

 

[STx]

I'm not sure how to write this without it sounding bad, but this has been my experience. I've worked for the same company for almost 25 years and I've seen a lot of employees come and go. I think Americans in general have become lazy and feel entitled to more than they deserve for the amount of work they put in.

We've had employees who've immigrated from all over the world and from what I've seen, these immigrants have a much stronger work ethic. When I say this, I don't say it lightly. In fact I admit their work ethic is much stronger than mine! My advice to anyone hiring is to consider hiring an immigrant.

We have an employee from Taiwan and have had several from mainland China. We also have employees from The Philippines, India, and Turkey. I suppose one factor that makes them good employees is that in order to get to the United State these people have to be fairly driven in the first place. Out of the three employees we've had from The Philippines I can honestly say they were all or are very hard workers that showed up early every day and stayed late. They would each take all the overtime offered to them and if they couldn't get overtime they would get a second job.

We have friends from The Philippines that were nurses and dentists in their home country and in order to get a work visa, came here to be care givers in nursing homes for the disabled at minimum wage. Most take second jobs and work 60-80 hours per week sending as much money back home as they can.

That one care facility is staffed by about 80% Filipino now. My wife worked there until the day before our son was born. By the way, she never missed a day of work and was never late in almost 3 years of employment including her entire pregnancy. She was part of the "younger workforce" along with her coworkers. She could tell you many stories about her non Filipino coworkers.

Kevin

I have often said that only immigrants really understand the promise of the American Dream. It was work hard, get ahead. It was not be born in America, have everything handed to you.

 

[stan33]

My guess is that you feel put out if your boss criticizes you or expects some extra effort.

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[newbury]

If the slackers don't have the work ethic you just can't make a profit out of them. It's such a shame you can't use the whip any more, to really make 'em learn the meaning of who's boss and what real work means. Boss man sure needs to keep up his living standards up at the big house, yes siree.

If you read the OP he isn't making a profit. The slackers show up when they want to. When you have a job to get done you need doers, not slackers. It reads like you don't have standards.

 

[BigBoyToys]

Why do you think all the younger generation types are jumping on the "Bernie Bandwagon" :confused2: ...they are the "Entitlement Generation" expecting something for nothing! Tax the real workers and business owners to redistribute the wealth. Maybe they should all move to Greece and see how well it worked out for them!!!
GOD HELP THIS COUNTRY!!!

 

[MossRoad]

Sounds like a true silver lining...

What was your Dad's certification?

Between my last post and this one I had a call to go in... plumbing issues which I made quick work of since I keep a little of everything in house for just such situations...

Over 100,000 surgeries and never cancelled a single one due to a problem with the facility or equipment...

I believe it was some specialized branch of construction specification writing.

My dad bought an early Apple computer for the house and taught himself how to use it. He'd get these huge binders of construction info and he'd enter it all into the computer, pretty much every night for a week, once per quarter as the new specs would come out. He'd bring his work home with him, and use the computer to generate the spreadsheets for the specs. He was the first person I knew that had a computer in his house. Anyhow, he could whip out the work pretty darn fast. As time went on, he kept upgrading and trading up computers to get faster and more data storage. Of course, it was all 5.25 floppy drives back then. He had two! :laughing: Eventually, they started putting out the info on floppies instead of in binders, but dad bought the programming for himself and kept up on things. That's how he was able to start his own business after getting forced out. It was already set up. He just switched from doing business for his boss, to doing business for himself. It was a smooth transition for him.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

"USE OF DISCUSSION FORUM, CHAT ROOMS, PRIVATE MESSAGING, AND OTHER COMMUNICATIONS FORUMS ON TRACTORBYNET.COM If this web site contains discussion forums, chat rooms, or other message or communication facilities (collectively, "Forums"), you agree to use the Forums only to send and receive messages and material that are proper and related to the particular Forum. By way of example, and not as a limitation, you agree that when using a Forum, you shall not do any of the following:

1. Defame, abuse, harass, stalk, threaten or otherwise violate the legal rights (such as rights of privacy and publicity) of others."

Slacker....

 

[ultrarunner]

My first computer and one I still have is an AppleII with two floppy drives... I cost many months wages to buy but I did have an in with my god-sister who was Apple employee 185.

Since 1980 I have owned exactly 3 computers... the II, a win 98 in 1998 and a win 7 in 2010.

 

[ultrarunner]

Of course, it reads like they will have to hire three people to cover what you do for the present management.

Have you considered you might have been a selling point for the old management? If you walked away how much would you be making for NOT working?

Even with 25 years there is no pension... that all stopped a few mergers back long ago... the term was temporarily frozen... now I know temporary means at least 18 years.

Way back when I was at the top of the pay scale... now, most of us are on par... new hire after two years or a nurse with 15... very much all the same give or take a dollar.

Today is one of those 12 hour and counting... someone got in before the alarm was set in the business office and rained havoc... crow-barred lock cabinets and files, took a hammer to the fire panel and really for nothing... what ended up missing was a candy jar, a watch and what ever loose change the girls kept in their pencil drawers... the damage adds up into the thousands... with damaging the security/fire panel being the most costly... can't lock up with a fully functioning UL system fully operational.

Police said Breaking and Entering is hardly ever jail time because it is classified as non-violent.

25 years ago I was the younger generation...

Most all the younger employees have kids to pickup, dinner to get ready, etc...

 

[MossRoad]

Even with 25 years there is no pension... that all stopped a few mergers back long ago... the term was temporarily frozen... now I know temporary means at least 18 years.

Way back when I was at the top of the pay scale... now, most of us are on par... new hire after two years or a nurse with 15... very much all the same give or take a dollar.

Today is one of those 12 hour and counting... someone got in before the alarm was set in the business office and rained havoc... crow-barred lock cabinets and files, took a hammer to the fire panel and really for nothing... what ended up missing was a candy jar, a watch and what ever loose change the girls kept in their pencil drawers... the damage adds up into the thousands... with damaging the security/fire panel being the most costly... can't lock up with a fully functioning UL system fully operational.

Police said Breaking and Entering is hardly ever jail time because it is classified as non-violent.

25 years ago I was the younger generation...

Most all the younger employees have kids to pickup, dinner to get ready, etc...

Our pension froze in 2008. Thank goodness I got into the 401K back in '89.

 

[ultrarunner]

I would have been the first in the family to have a pension...

Guess it will have to wait for the next generation

 

[TomSeller]

I would have been the first in the family to have a pension...

Guess it will have to wait for the next generation

Pensions are a thing of the past. I had 15 years into one when it was frozen and was surprised how little it will pay out even with high income over the "high five" years. My current 401K and past 401K rollover are much more substantial.

 

[ultrarunner]

We never really had a pension... we did have a 401k with generous match, stock plan and pension bonus plan.

All together I have about 2k in employer money in the mix.

We merged several times and only being 20% or 30% vested meant I lost a big chunk each time...

Had co-workers that retired 20 years ago and 100k just in the ESOP plan...

As with most things... the boomers got there first.

Now my public safety friends have incredable pensions... 29 years in with credit for 30 and 180k pension with lifetime medical... got bored at 53 and went to work for another agency bringing in 130k wages... 12 from my high school class went into Oakland PD at 21 with 2 year admin of justice all are retired and some went to work for other agencies/private.

Kind of boggles the mind... I thought I would be smart and get my 4 year degree which from day one provides a salary boost... that extra 2 years brought about a consent decree... too many non minority males in the Bay Area police and fire departments...

 

[TomSeller]

Wouldn't really surprise me if government pensions were hacked back more too. Everyone else had it happen.

 

[Redneck in training]

I didn't read all the posts. My former employer hired lot of immigrants. They were the most stable work force and least trouble. The problem was that local people such as accomplished programmers, electronics designers etc were hard to find because they were already working for somebody. So they went to universities to look for talent or brought people "stolen" from our clients in foreign countries. The policy used to be that all were paid the US wage. So most of them were paid way better than us because of lower living expenses. But in return the company got loyal very hard working employees.
I had colleague originally from India that was hired from US university where he was getting advanced engineering degree. I asked him how he could afford the school. The university required to have 20000 USD cash for admission. He borrowed money from friends, relatives etc and put it in a bank. Once he got the statement he withdrew the money and return it. Sent the statement to the university and was admitted. So I asked how he could survive with only few thousand he brought with him. He said: You don't party, you study hard and become top student and teaching assistant. Then you make money. When he graduated he had decent car and 20K in the bank. Worked for us little over 5 or 6 years until he got citizenship. Then quit and went back to school to get MBA degree. Today has corner office with windows and high paying job working for one of the big oil companies.

 

[KennyG]

Wouldn't really surprise me if government pensions were hacked back more too. Everyone else had it happen.

For new hires/future earning of benefits, yes. For existing benefits, no. Court cases have pretty consistently said that a promise is a promise and about the only way to cut back on existing earned pensions is through bankruptcy. That was the whole basis of the GM "bailout". Bankruptcy would not have destroyed GM, only reorganized it. It was characterized as a bailout rather than bankruptcy to allow the union and pension benefits to be untouched while the bondholders and stockholders took the hit.

Same thing with governments. The state of Illinois tried to modify pensions and the court would not allow it. Unless they declare bankruptcy (which remains a real possibility) the pensions survive.

 

[dmccarty]

For new hires/future earning of benefits, yes. For existing benefits, no. Court cases have pretty consistently said that a promise is a promise and about the only way to cut back on existing earned pensions is through bankruptcy. That was the whole basis of the GM "bailout". Bankruptcy would not have destroyed GM, only reorganized it. It was characterized as a bailout rather than bankruptcy to allow the union and pension benefits to be untouched while the bondholders and stockholders took the hit.

Same thing with governments. The state of Illinois tried to modify pensions and the court would not allow it. Unless they declare bankruptcy (which remains a real possibility) the pensions survive.

I guess it depends on the meaning of existing benefits. The very large company I work for reduced defined pensions at least twice that I remember. The last time was the big one where employees who had enough years of service and age, stayed with the define pension plan, those employees like me who did not meet the age or years of service were put into a second retirement system, and new hires are in a third. The defined pension plan decreased benefits and I sure lost money.

I don't think people getting the pension were affected but those of us promised a pension certainly were lied too. Retirees were shafted with decreased payments on health care which was also a promise made by the company.

The company has had decent/good profits all during the times the pensions were changed. In fact, the first big change that I remember was to take out the huge amount of money that was over funding the pension. It was hundreds of millions of dollars that went right to the profit line in the quarter the change was triggered. Without the pension change, and the raid on the over funding, the quarterly financial targets would have been missed. The company would have looked good year to year but one quarter would have been ugly...

The reality is that companies and governments have to move off defined pension plans since they move expenses to the future and require future generations of workers and tax payers to pay for past promises which is unethical to say the least. HOW, companies and governments move to new plans is the hard part and not done so well or often early enough.

Later,
Dan

 

[ultrarunner]

I think you are spot on Dan

A person comes to work for a company based on the overall package offered.

Even my friends that are in Unions often have two or more depending on date of hire/length of service.

I still have memos about the Temporary 401k freeze... at least I know temporary means 9 years and counting...

It's been a little awkward the last two years as the interim administrator and I have a long history of working well together on many company projects the 401k freeze was one of her pet peeves... that was until they made her administrator.

Every change has been a takeaway and not being fully vested at times of mergers hurt the most... you see money in the retirement account and have a file full of statements... the company changes direction and only 20% of the match is yours...

For over a year the pension plan was MIA... it was not until one of the employees retired and said I want my money that they found it... the money was never transferred from the old company to the new one... I had made inquires and reported back something was wrong.

The one thing I learned, at least with my co-workers, is almost no one pays attention to the retirement statements... until someone retired and wanted their money... I was the only person that questioned it and I was 100% right.

So you don't have to be young to be affected.

Several of my friends that work for local governments bailed when pension changes were coming... they were grandfathered with lifetime medical and were allowed to pension spike in which the year you retire the payout for all unused medical/vacation goes into the calculation to determine the amount of your retirement.

None had planned to leave... all are very glad they did... all were age 50 to 53 and got the heck outta Dodge with their benefits in tack...

 

[KennyG]

I guess there were a number of companies that had vesting limitations that could hurt the employees when the plans were terminated. In general, it doesn't make sense for a private company to have a defined benefit program rather than a defined contribution (401K) program. You can make a case that it's better for the retirees to have a pension but it really sucks for the current employees if it causes the company to go bankrupt.

We switched years ago to protect the company. We had boomed from 1000 employees to over 5000 employees and then dropped back to less than 2000. We fully vested the pension at 5 years but a lot of people got laid off and had little benefit. The potential large number of retirees threatened the future viability of the company. At the point we terminated the pension plan the employees earned benefit was calculated and an insurance company annuity was purchased in their name. From that point forward, the company put an annual contribution of 6% of salary into the 401K. I think people are uniformly happy with the way it worked out.

My understanding was that it had to be done that way to be legal and the earned benefit had to be fully vested at that time, independent of vesting rules.