Wind Turbine ********. Just opened the mail and seen the plan for three massive units

[DarkBlack]

So... a multi-thousand $$$$ battery for the same function as a $200-$800 gas or oil tank. Hmm...What a bargain.

 

[MossRoad]

Moss; eliminating ethanol is not a plausible solution for many of us tipplers!

YIKES! What was I thinking??? :drink:

 

[MossRoad]

What nuclear waste lands ? I work at a nuclear disposal site for low, medium and used fuel. Maybe you should know what you are talking about before spouting off greenpeace rhetoric .

What are you talking about????

 

[CalG]

Yup, I've got a nuke plant that just shut down about 5 miles from my door step.

There is 100 acres that will be inaccessible for then next 10,000 years.

 

[Sysop]

Solar may be small, but is growing fast: US Solar Jumps 41 Percent with Residential Surpassing 300 Megawatts

A lot of that was paid for by our tax dollars... residential customers were getting mega tax write offs for installing anything solar. The FTA also gave away millions of dollars to transit authorities across the nation to implement solar projects. Here in WV, we have no "big cities" by typical standards. To speak of one I'm personally familiar with, the FTA put taxpayer dollars into a grant, to be matched with other local taxpayer dollars, to install a multimillion dollar solar power station on the roof of a local transit authority estimating 372,519 kWh per year of output. Most of which they use (about 323,000 kWh), but what isn't used is put into the grid. Taxpayers bought it, 100% and outright. Taxpayers paid to install it, 100% of the cost. Taxpayers aren't paying less for the leftover solar energy the transit authority is pumping into the grid. Price per kW remains steadily increasing. The money saved on the electric bill at the transit authority? Pay raises, extra office toys, whatever. It didn't decrease the amount they use out of the taxpayer's budget...

Is it a good thing? In my opinion and in spite of everything I said above, mostly yes. I'd much rather see them spending my tax dollars on projects like this, than bailouts of poorly ran companies, higher government salaries at the higher levels of office (none of the folk at the local transit authority are what I'd call overpaid), or handouts to junkie-pillheads. Most individuals will never be able to afford these technologies and the technologies will never get better if nobody is buying them. It took a long time for solar panels to make their way out of a calculator and into other devices (I'd reckon ya gotta sell a lot of calculators to pay for any R&D? :confused3.

Today's solar panels are better than ever before, and the rapidity of their progress is growing more with the more applications they become suitable for. I think one day it will be a viable source of power in many places. I also think it will be a long time. Is it worth it? I have no clue, but most things that are worth it don't come easy...

 

[CalG]

The weakness of Silicon based solar panels, is that there will never be enough active area available to meet any sort of reasonable contribution to our total energy needs.

The spectrum of photo-emissivity is much to limited. A hybrid photo collector must be developed to take advantage of the entire photo-electric spectrum from solar radiation.
ZnS, and Germanium in concert with Si. Then "roof top" installations would compete with "solar farms" as viable energy sources.

For me, roof top solar-thermal collectors that would supply domestic hot water would be a significant first step. Forget electricity, just make use of the HEAT!.

 

[Redneck in training]

The weakness of Silicon based solar panels, is that there will never be enough active area available to meet any sort of reasonable contribution to our total energy needs.

The spectrum of photo-emissivity is much to limited. A hybrid photo collector must be developed to take advantage of the entire photo-electric spectrum from solar radiation.
ZnS, and Germanium in concert with Si. Then "roof top" installations would compete with "solar farms" as viable energy sources.

For me, roof top solar-thermal collectors that would supply domestic hot water would be a significant first step. Forget electricity, just make use of the HEAT!.

The beauty of PV is simplicity and reliability. Heat collectors are expensive and the system associated with them (relative to PV) is complicated.

 

[techman]

A lot of that was paid for by our tax dollars...

And the oil/gas industry does not get any federal subsidies or tax breaks ???

 

[dmccarty]

And the oil/gas industry does not get any federal subsidies or tax breaks ???

Subsies, no. Tax breaks yes, just like I do. Do the oil companies PAY taxes, yes they do.

Last time I checked, if I install a PV system in NC I will get 65% of that money back from NC state and the Feds. Eventually. If that 65% subsidy went away, what would happen to the solar power business in NC? If we took away all of the tax breaks the oil companies and everyone else gets, which I am in favor of doing, will Exxon still be in business?

Later,
Dan

 

[techman]

Subsies, no. Tax breaks yes, just like I do. Do the oil companies PAY taxes, yes they do.

Last time I checked, if I install a PV system in NC I will get 65% of that money back from NC state and the Feds. Eventually. If that 65% subsidy went away, what would happen to the solar power business in NC? If we took away all of the tax breaks the oil companies and everyone else gets, which I am in favor of doing, will Exxon still be in business?

Later,
Dan

May not be a subsidy, but the tax breaks are certainly big enough.

 

[Creamer]

May not be a subsidy, but the tax breaks are certainly big enough.

Really? Are you bringing up this old hackneyed subject again? The oil companies get no special tax breaks as compared to other corporations. All companies get to deduct the costs of doing business and one of those costs for oil companies is searching for and developing new sources. The fact that they have billions of dollars of expenses is because they are spending billions dollars of money because they need to to support their ongoing operations.

This is nothing like a Solindra - it is standard deduction for expenses for normal operations no different than a farmer's costs to plant and tend crops or manufacturer's costs incurred to make product.

 

[dave1949]

Subsies, no. Tax breaks yes, just like I do. Do the oil companies PAY taxes, yes they do.

Last time I checked, if I install a PV system in NC I will get 65% of that money back from NC state and the Feds. Eventually. If that 65% subsidy went away, what would happen to the solar power business in NC? If we took away all of the tax breaks the oil companies and everyone else gets, which I am in favor of doing, will Exxon still be in business?

Later,
Dan

Will the Army Corps of Engineers be dredging rivers and harbors for your next boat load of sunshine? Taxpayer funded subsidies and supports come in many flavors.

Yes, Exxon will go out of business if you have to pay the real costs of oil and gas.

 

[aczlan]

Taxpayer funded subsidies and supports come in many flavors.
Yes, Exxon will go out of business if you have to pay the real costs of oil and gas.

As will any business if you tax them on their gross income without allowing any deductions for expenses.

Aaron Z

 

[Creamer]

Yes, Exxon will go out of business if you have to pay the real costs of oil and gas.

Big statement - anything to back it up?

 

[Creamer]

As will any business if you tax them on their gross income without allowing any deductions for expenses.

If all businesses have the same tax burden then it will all equal out and the prices will go up for the consumer but corporations exist to make a return on their investment. If the general prices go up because of changed tax policy they will still make a profit.

The problem I have is that all we have done is shift how the taxes are paid - since the corporations are paying more taxes they are raising their prices to collect more money to hand it over to the government. the bottom line is that corporations never really pay taxes they do collect other people's money and hand it over but this is just indirect personal taxation. The corporation will make a return on its investment at whatever level its investors require as set by the market. The consumers pay one way or the other.

 

[dave1949]

Big statement - anything to back it up?

If you need to ask, you've been living in a vacuum for the past 20 years. If you haven't learned anything by now, nothing I can say would help you.

 

[Creamer]

If you need to ask, you've been living in a vacuum for the past 20 years. If you haven't learned anything by now, nothing I can say would help you.

Thank you all knowing one. I can appreciate your arrogance. Sorry to have bothered you!

But we both know the truth is that this is your paradigm and how dare I ask you - the great one - to substantiate any outlandish claim.

 

[dave1949]

As will any business if you tax them on their gross income without allowing any deductions for expenses.

Aaron Z

How do you know this? If all businesses are treated equally, then whether the the government foregoes tax revenue from a given business activity segment or consumers pay the actual costs wrapped into pricing makes no difference. Someone pays somehow. There is no magic money.

In any case, tax policy is the least of the real costs of oil and gas.

 

[dave1949]

Thank you all knowing one. I can appreciate your arrogance. Sorry to have bothered you!

But we both know the truth is that this is your paradigm and how dare I ask you - the great one - to substantiate any outlandish claim.

Enjoy your vacuum.

 

[buickanddeere]

Yup, I've got a nuke plant that just shut down about 5 miles from my door step.

There is 100 acres that will be inaccessible for then next 10,000 years.

The actual footprint of the reactor and zone 3 will be about one acre. Everything is radioactive, it's a matter of how radioactive. Do we post a radiation sign over your septic tank after you eat bananas which are loaded with radioactive potassium 40. Even the used fuel after 250 years is down to only 4-5 rem per hour. If you are waiting for radioactive materials to fission down to zero. You had better remove and bury the granite counter tops in your kitchen for hundreds of thousands of years.